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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To avoid women who do not like women

276 replies

abacucat · 18/10/2018 10:54

If another women thinks women in general are bitchy, gossipy and much prefer men as she thinks they are more straightforward, then no I am not going to want to talk to you or spend time with you. If you show contempt for women in general, why would I want to talk to you?

OP posts:
GerdaLovesLili · 18/10/2018 14:54

I have to say the worst experiences I ever had were being sent to an all girls secondary and the time I found myself accidentally working in an all-female team.

I don't thrive in those environments I might as well have been sent to Mars without a guide book. I am utterly baffled by most of the subtext of what's going on around me in them, and have been on the receiving end of the most outright hostility i have ever encountered in all female environments.

That's not to say I don't have some very good, very close female friends, but if I ever had to choose between an all female or an otherwise all male environment (let's hope I never have to) I would choose the latter.

I'm certainly never going to be thought of as pretty or even conventionally attractive, so I'm not a Samatha Brick , nor do I instantly write off a new acquaintance just because of her sex BUT I just don't have a clue what's going on in multiple female friendship relationships and have been booted out of "the sisterhood" whatever you might perceive that to be. (This doesn't mean I don't fancy women or haven't had relationships with them, but that's a whole different kind of understanding isn't it?)

I suspect we're not destined to be friends abacucat and that's OK. I don't need your approval to be me.

DrusillasMissEdith · 18/10/2018 14:58

@sayanythingelse you really are stereotyping women. I have a lot of female friends and we never talk about make up or go shopping. Just to be clear I don’t do these things with my male friends either.

Gingerrogered · 18/10/2018 15:08

Hmm. This is interesting because I’ve been accused of being a ‘woman who doesn’t like women’ as have many of my female friends and none of us are!

What I’ve found is that there is one very dominant strand of female socialisation which a big mass of women go through. They are close to their Mum’s and have a group of female friends throughout school and their outlook remains predominantly female throughout their lives and they prioritise their relationships with women even above those with their partner. They seem to internalise a lot of messages about what they think ‘decent women’ should be like and tend to have a highly codified standards of behaviour and expectations of how women should be have. These tend towards never appearing to be clever, false modesty (which they expect to be rewarded by affirmations of how great they are when they display it, being caring and preoccupied with emotions, and most importantly prioritising the females close to them above all others and supporting them 100% no matter how badly they behave. An example of this is that if a friend complains to you about a relationship with someone outside your circle of friends, a female colleague, a husband or boyfriend or mother in law - you must never, ever give objective advice which seeks to see the problem from both sides and offer a solution. You must only sympathise, tell them what an awful bastard the other person is, encourage a victim mentality and egg them on with any nastiness or vengefulness. They do also have a tendency to discuss things which are stereotypically female like emotions, relationships, children, beauty etc.

Which is fine. Everyone is different and horses for courses and all that. The problem is that sort of woman frequently thinks that their way of being a woman is the proper way and any woman who doesn’t behave like that is transgressing and deserves hostile behaviour.

So if you were someone socialised a bit differently: you had lots of older brothers and weren’t close to your mum; you were the quiet geeky girl with one close female friend that you talked to about science and books or you were football nuts and hung around with the other tomboys from the school team or boys: they really, really don’t like that and react with hostility and nastiness.

So obviously if you’re someone on the receiving end of that you learn to avoid that sort of woman. I know their are groups of women at work I don’t want to socialise with. I know they will want me to join in with a bitching session about Donna with accounts and when I don’t I’ll be seen as a snooty superior cow who doesn’t value the group dynamics.

So I avoid women like that. I don’t associate with them. But, because they are so convinced that they have the monopoly on the ‘right’ or ‘decent’ way to be female, they believe a rejection of women like themselves is a rejection of all women. But it’s not. It’s a rejection of women like them.

I tend to find females I get on with more difficult to find as they tend to be less visible, less keen to grasp onto other women in social situations and quite simply there’s less of them around. So sometimes I will gravitate towards men in social situations just because many of the women there are not my cup of tea. That means I get labelled as a woman hater - but I’m really not. I have some very close, valued female friends. I just choose not to spend time with women who have a very narrow and stereotypes view of what a woman should be.

I don’t hate women in general, I just hate that many other women put so much pressure on other women to conform to their expectations and attack them if they don’t.

Conseulabananahammock · 18/10/2018 15:11

Gingerrogered this exactly. Your post is spot on .

MephistophelesApprentice · 18/10/2018 15:12

But, because they are so convinced that they have the monopoly on the ‘right’ or ‘decent’ way to be female, they believe a rejection of women like themselves is a rejection of all women. But it’s not. It’s a rejection of women like them.

For a long time I thought I didn't like other men. As I got older, it turns out I don't get on with 'lads'.

Great post.

Henryismyfriend · 18/10/2018 15:14

I am friends with people from qualities, not their gender or sex.
I've never really thought about it before reading this thread, but 'adding up' my friends, I have 2 close female and none male, about 70% men to 30% women in my wider circle of friends this includes some partners of female friends, gay male couples etc I don't hate women, or men. I've been shit on from a great height by both, I dislike the actual person.
But by your reasoning I'm an internal mysoginist and a woman hater.
Thanks for the judgement 👍

Alaaya · 18/10/2018 15:22

Gingerrogered - really excellent post that says what I was trying to say but so much more clearly!

DieAntword · 18/10/2018 15:26

Gingerrogered I have to say I don’t recognise your description of a female type I’m literally any woman/girl I have ever known in my life.

OpinionCat · 18/10/2018 15:26

Gingerrogered

I think you just won this thread!

I completely agree, to summarise it's definitely a 'different strokes' kind of situation. I particularly find it hard with MIL, GMIL, SIL's because they all come from very traditional upbringings with close mothers they speak to everyday, sisters etc. I never had a close relationship with my mother (still don't really, could go a couple weeks without any communication as ive been independent from a young age) no sisters, just an older brother who spent time with me teaching me to play video games with him. So, i don't 'connect' with these women in my life and i do feel left out, but i just physically don't know how to connect with them. They can sit there with a cup of tea and natter about ironing, cleaning up, gossiping about other women at their work etc for god knows how long - where i just want to chill out and watch a funny film or animal documentaries! - and neither of us are wrong, its just different strokes.

CaptainCabinets · 18/10/2018 15:31

I used to think I got on better with men than women until I realised I was simply associating with the wrong women. I currently have an amazing group of female friends and maybe two or three male friends.

ainsisoisje · 18/10/2018 15:33

@Gingerrogered
Very eloquently put :)

Alaaya · 18/10/2018 15:39

DieAntword - which I think shows how variable people are and how different social groups work differently in different areas maybe, as I found Ginger's post incredibly relatable.

ButchyRestingFace · 18/10/2018 15:45

From the time I started school, I was absolutely petrified of girls. I felt so inadequate next to them. Hence I only played with boys at primary school. Doubtless I need to unpack this in a safe space on a therapist's couch. Smile

As I grew older, I found it easier to make female friends but I still, on a superficial friendship level, seem to get on better with males. They seem to respond better to me more than other women do. And it's not because I'm attractive. I've got a face like a well-skelped arse. (see username). Grin

But it's not that I dislike women. At all.

thatmustbenigelwiththebrie · 18/10/2018 15:48

I have traditional "male" interests, I guess. I love downhill mountain biking and haven't (yet) found any women to ride with so go with men. I also love video games and work in STEM.

But I LOVE female friendship and spending time with women. The two are not mutually exclusive. I certainly don't think men are less gossipy and back stabby at all.

ButchyRestingFace · 18/10/2018 15:50

hey seem to internalise a lot of messages about what they think ‘decent women’ should be like and tend to have a highly codified standards of behaviour and expectations of how women should be have.

Interesting. As you probably know, OP actually stated in an earlier post

if you don't like women, that comes across. And decent women like me will avoid you.

That was the first point at I which I thought Hmm

Gingerrogered · 18/10/2018 16:28

butchy, exactly. Big red flag. If you feel that you can speak for ‘decent women’ as a group and think that all ‘decent women’ think the same way as you then you’re probably going to have a very, very narrow view of what a ‘decent woman’ is.

abacucat · 18/10/2018 16:44

No I don't have a narrow view at all. But I do have good self esteem and have no wish to spend time with anyone who dislikes women or has stereotypical views of what a woman is like.

OP posts:
abacucat · 18/10/2018 16:46

And as usual many don't actually read the thread and make stuff up. I certainly don;t have codified societal ideas of what women are like. For one I would not meet them.

OP posts:
Gingerrogered · 18/10/2018 16:50

I don’t think so OP. You seem to have a very rigid view of how women should respond to you and when they don’t do it in what you perceive as the right way you seem to be very quick to write them off as ‘not liking women’. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to you that a lot of women just don’t like you. TBH from this thread I can see just why.

ButchyRestingFace · 18/10/2018 16:52

Could you define what 'decent woman' means to you, OP?

abacucat · 18/10/2018 16:53

Grin Okay whatever you say.

OP posts:
abacucat · 18/10/2018 16:57

Butchy It was the wrong word to use really. But what I actually meant was someone with self esteem. If you have self esteem, you avoid people who think badly of groups you belong to. So if you are black, you avoid people who are racist - even if they keep claiming they are not but say racist things. Because why would you volunteer to put yourself through that?

So in the same way if someone dislikes women as a group and has very stereotyped views about what women should be like, then I avoid them. I won't fit those stereotypes, so why should I put myself through being judged negatively in a misogynistic way?

Life is too short.

OP posts:
The80sweregreat · 18/10/2018 17:01

I trust a few women that I've known for over thirty years! Men are more straight forward but they also gossip and can be hard work too. It's just people isn't it? We have to try and rub along.
Most women I hear talking do not seem to rate men much, but I do understand the types you mean and have come across a few in the past.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 18/10/2018 17:02

Harsh @gingerogered !

I don’t recognize these bonded women close to their mothers tbh but not discounting your experience. I have mostly women friends and get on with most people however I also
Would not want to bitch about Donna from accounts
Or sit and talk about cleaning!

So maybe we have more in common than you think! And I’m s woman. I’ll be your friend all you posters with few women friends and I’m not a bitch! Grin

OpinionCat · 18/10/2018 17:03

So if you are black, you avoid people who are racist

oh yeah because black people can't be racist.