To avoid women who do not like women

[abacucat]

If another women thinks women in general are bitchy, gossipy and much prefer men as she thinks they are more straightforward, then no I am not going to want to talk to you or spend time with you. If you show contempt for women in general, why would I want to talk to you?

Gingerrogered I have to say I don’t recognise your description of a female type I’m literally any woman/girl I have ever known in my life.

yeah me neither. None of my friends are super close to their mothers either - just normally close but not your best friend kind of way. to be honest, I can't think of a woman I know who says/acts like she doesn't like other women either. I've only heard that on MN.

But I suspect my husband could have written this:

For a long time I thought I didn't like other men. As I got older, it turns out I don't get on with 'lads'.

Some women feel more comfortable chatting with men. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't like women. You can like women and men, but just get on better with men. That doesn't make you a woman-hater or a bad person.

Ginger I don't have a good relationship with my mother, was academic at school, graduated in the top 2% of my year in my undergraduate degree and got a distinction in my masters, have never worn make up in my life, don't like weddings (attending or discussing) etc etc but from my pount of view you've got everything arse about face.

I'd say it's the people who think the things you've posted and base the assumption that they have nothing in common with ither women who have swallowed stereotypes whole! I don't think "women" as a class are like that at all! Some are, some aren't - most aren't once you're over 25...

For me it's not who you're (generic you) friends with (people) that is relevant, it's the people who live to hear themselves say they prefwr the opposite sex because they are more honest, more straightforward, more this or that. Those are the people living the stereotype and sometimes trying to get attention or convince themselves they are (more) special (than other members of their sex).

Women have some things in common based at root in biology (if only the experience of having been subjected to expectations of femininity, discriminated against because of those stereotypes or the perceived risk they'd get pregnant and take maternity leave, different perceptions and types of physical risk in the wider world late at night or whatever). That doesn't mean anyone has to be anyone else's friend, but dismissing your entire sex as silly girls or mean girls is extreme negative stereotyping and hasn't got any positives.

I live in a small community where there are less than a handful of women to whom I relate. I work in a male orientated field with a group of men and three women. I find the men easier to deal with. They are more straightforward and do not create drama from fresh air. Without exception, women i have worked with in the past have been tricky; Creating dialogue that simply hasn't happened, avoiding the question that would clarify and preferring to think the worst instead and over thinking a simple hello. I am not saying all men are easier or all women are hard work, I just find men require less maintenance and I am all for an easy life.

I have RTFT, but to respond to the OP directly, my mum says exactly this to me regularly, and I find it really offensive every time! You do realise I'm female too, mother? Maybe she's had bad experiences, I guess. There was probably a time as a late teenager when I might have agreed, but definitely not now. I've known loads of brilliant women, and I'm so grateful to have had them in my life. Male 'friends' have usually ended up looking for more than friendship, in my experience.

Absolutely. I’ve met two in my life and both were quite unpleasant.

I would think they were weird. They don't like "women"!? What all of them?! Being female does not mean you have particular character traits.

@Couldashouldawoulda that’s like my step daughters, their mother tells them that women are all bitches! I just don’t understand it. Their mother falls out with other women all the time and has no female friends. I think it’s her reasoning for being volatile. That it’s other women.

I’m actually one of these women.
Every time I get in to a friendship group of women it always ends up in them bitching to me about the others and their drama .
I’m a grown woman , I don’t need a bunch of so called grown ups talking about what the others wear , do , sayor that the others husbands are having affairs etc.. it’s tedious .
I have Close female friends but we all feel the same way and would be just as happy to go out with our husbands/ partners as a group rather than just “girl time” to do more of said bitching .
Sorry if that offends some people but it’s just the way I feel ..

I love my female friends. They’ve saved my life and made it bearable many, many times! Viva la women!

You won't like me very much then OP. It's not that I don't like women, I have female friends, but I find it more difficult to get on with women. I feel awkward around them. I have 3 female friends from when I was at school and that's it. We were never 'popular' and I was bullied by girls at school, for my hair and the fact I didn't conform. I don't drink and I am a geek, that loves superheroes and horror films. I find it much easier to talk to men. I get on better with women now I am older and have children because I have something in common, but always feel like an outsider.
I don't feel special in anyway, if anything it makes me feel like a reject and not good enough, you post just cements that, so thank you.

Cross-gender friendships can be pretty good, certainly better than bad same-gender friendships, but can't ever hold a candle to a really really good same-gender friendship. People who believe otherwise are IMO seriously deluding themselves, probably resting on flirtation to keep things interesting rather than real platonic chummery.

I’m female but I much prefer male sense of humour

This story sounds like a bit of a cliche but at school i was the overweight geeky girl who got picked on by all the popular girls and excluded from everything. I spent a lot of time feeling very lonely and miserable. I ended up doing a male dominated (at the time) science based degree and went into that area for work. I was treated horribly by girls but found men quite straightforward and friendly; what you see is what you get. Over the years I lost weight and discovered hair dye, make-up and nice clothes. I found that when I looked better the so called mean girls ( including those at work ) wanted to include me. When i socialised with them I truly was shocked how even adult women can be so manipulative and back stabbing to women they call their friends. It made me uncomfortably and as a result i still get on better with the men at work. However i do have a small set of really lovely female friends but on the whole I tend to steer clear of the b*itchy types. I think when some women see another woman who they might perceive to be somewhat attractive and more comfortable in male company maybe they can be a bit judgy and class them as attention seeking and flirty...but then women like that are exactly the types i try to avoid as they tend to be the ones always talking behind peoples backs.

I agree there's a lot of internalised misogyny on this thread. In the interest of full disclosure I was a "guys girl" until my mid 20s. Superficially I had female friends but I was likely seen as someone you couldn't really trust with your boyfriend and I was definitely more interested in men. I look back now and cringe but it came from a difficult relationship with my mum and constantly seeking the approval of my dad. Women like the person I was back then have huge self esteem issues. I still have some difficulty with groups of women I don't know - felt like the odd one out a mother and baby groups but I know that was my issue, not theirs. I think becoming a feminist was probably a gradual turning point for me (plus some counselling for self esteem issues in recent years)

Cross-gender friendships can be pretty good, certainly better than bad same-gender friendships, but can't ever hold a candle to a really really good same-gender friendship. People who believe otherwise are IMO seriously deluding themselves, probably resting on flirtation to keep things interesting rather than real platonic chummery.

I think this is a classic example of the kind of attitudes which made me feel uncomfortable and unsafe around a certain kind of woman with a certain kind of socialization. I also consider this to involve just as much misogyny as any kind of 'man's woman' nonsense.

If you really think that any woman who has male friends is just deluding herself and is really just a gigantic flooze looking for attention are you really surprised that those women aren't then gagging to be friends with you?

I'm often accused of not liking women by people who don't know me. They see a single, childless woman who mostly works with men in a sporting field. They judge me because when the conversation inevitably turns to children/babies/pregnancy I quietly withdraw. When a woman I know gets pregnant I withdraw. When a woman goes on about her wonderful husband and marriage I withdraw again.

The truth is that women talk about husbands and kids more than men do and I struggle with those type of conversations because I am a widow and I am infertile.

The women, and men, who are my friends and so who know me best understand why I do this and so keep the conversation away from those things.

I’m female but I much prefer male sense of humour

There is a male sense of humour???? What is that? Dh and I bonded over shared love of wodehouse and quotations from Jeeves and Wooster books. Does that mean I have a male sense of humour??

When i socialised with them I truly was shocked how even adult women can be so manipulative and back stabbing to women they call their friends.

This is so sad. I am 53 and worked for years as a professional in an engineering environment and I have never met women who are manipulative and back stabbing to women they call their friends. Neither have any of my female professional friends complained about this. Most of the women in my company were incredibly supportive of each other - and downright nice to each other too. It is like some of us women are living in one universe and some living in another. Would love to know what differentiates the two.

The women, and men, who are my friends and so who know me best understand why I do this and so keep the conversation away from those things.

Maybe you should give a chance to those who don't know you. If you withdraw from conversations, people will wonder why. You just need to mention your former husband or longing for children for most people to be more considerate around you. But it's not their fault.
You could take an interest in their lives instead of comparing them with yours.

"decent women like me will avoid you"
I could live with that

My female friends enrich my life. They’re supportive, funny, complicated and trusting. I like men too, but they have been socialised in a different way and don’t tend to converse the same way.

For anyone wanting a really validating view of female friendships and an analysis on why women have come to be known as bitchy/gossipy, read Text Me When You Get Home.

I work with someone who openly proclaims to not get along with women because of bitchyness etc.
She is the ultimate picture of bitchiness though, funny that.

It’s internalised misogyny, very similar to internalised racism where a person from a minority/oppressed group seeks to align themselves with the dominant/powerful group. They work hard to be seen as ‘not like those others’ in order to gain favour and sometimes actively work against the interests of their group. See Samantha Brick (female Uncle Tom) and Raheen Kassam (Muslim Breitbart editor/UKIP supporter) as extreme examples. The dominant group can see through their bullshit but use them as helpful idiots.

However, as PP said, not every women who appears to hate other women is really like that. I was ostracised by all of the girls at 6 form because the alpha girl was jealous I was going out with someone she fancied. Thus from the outside people may have thought I only wanted to hang with the guys but in reality the guys were my only friends. It also didn’t help that I wasn’t stereotypically ‘girly’.

Where are all these obsessed with their mothers, back stabbing, gossipy, judgemental, man's woman haters who sit around bitching, stabbing each other in the back and talking about ironing, cleaning, shoes and handbags all day? I honestly haven't met many women like this.
Look there's nothing wrong with a woman having friends who are men or women. However if you tell a woman that you don't like all women how is she supposed to react? She will probably not want to chat much after that kind of statement.
Imagine if a man said that? So, I'm not going to bother getting to know you, I just don't like any woman.

The key is to get on with who you get on with and give people a chance before you stereotype them based on gender. Also not to make sweeping generalisations about half the population of the world.
If you can do that, I can be your friend.
If you have a problem with all women I think you need to look at yourself because it's really not true that all women behave in a certain way. You just have either only met this kind or your perception of their behaviour is that they do this.
Same with men. Some are nice, some are arse holes.