To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

Elephantinacrava I can clarify for you by saying that I'm a trans-inclusive feminist. Will that do? Or will you belittle me by calling me a handmaiden or some other offensive crap like the OP has been called.

No. Not going to call you handmaiden. Sorry to disappoint you.

I will ask you on what basis you believe that transwomen are women.

I will ask you to justify why you believe that any man should be able to have access to women's legal rights and protections, simply on his own declaration that he is a 'woman'.

I will ask you to define 'transwoman' - is there specific criteria that you believe a man need to fulfil in order to come under the description of 'transwoman'? Surgery, hormones, clothing? Or just self declaration?

And I would also ask you to define 'woman'. If you believe that transwomen should have access to 'women's' legal protections.

Oh and you didn't answer the question about whether you believe women are entitled to single sex spaces.

If all trans wanted to do was to ‘piss in peace’, then i don’t think there would too much of a problem. Also, i don’t think people,have a problem with those trans who have suffered from gender dysmorphia and have fully transitioned,

However the situation is open to abuse. A paedophile or pervert could ‘self identify’ as a woman, and demand to sleep in a woman’s dorm in a Youth hostel (as permitted on the t and cs on their website). For me, it is unfortunately those few people who it for the rest of the harmless, well meaning trans.

@snapnfarter

Apologies...I haven't read too much and to be fair i dont agree with aspects of their stance on prostitution

How do you feel about safeguarding women and girls OP? Why do you think sex segregated spaces exist?

Self-ID will give any man access to any sex segregated space on his say so. If he says he’s a woman, he will be and no one will be able to challenge this. Do you really think this won’t be taken advantage of? It already is. In prisons, sports, refuges, awards, pretty much everything you can think of.

There is an argument that if people offend they should be dealt with under the law but it shouldn’t get that far, women and children shouldn’t have to be sexually assaulted or worse first - that’s why safeguarding exists.

I’m sure most trans people aren’t an issue but it’s impossible to tell who is genuine and who isn’t. If you open that door there is no closing it, at least not before some serious harm has been done.

And that’s just one reason before you even get into the silencing of women’s concerns, the reinforcement of gender stereotypes and the erasure of women as a sex class.

We are not being mean, there are consequences to this. Just because you don’t mind seeing a penis, there are plenty of women who for various reasons absolutely do not want this.

And in matters of consent, no always trumps yes.

Oh and you haven't answered the question about what 'basic human rights' trans people don't currently have.

And if people want to self ID as a woman but live in their male body? Fill your boots.

But use male toilets, go to male prisons and don't encroach on what used to be safe female spaces.

If you don't want to be minus your male parts then you are not even a woman in your own mind let alone in the real world.

I used to find the terminology really confusing too. I spent some time reading and trying to understand what all these awful strident women were getting so upset about. Once I understood the terminology and the issues, I became on of the awful strident women.

Where ARE these leisure centres where people are getting changed in one big communal room together? We have cubicles at all the ones in my large UK city.

Both the council swimming pools in my current home town and the previous are communal changing areas. They also have schools come for lessons. So I can be in there with lots of little girls getting changed. Lucky I'm just a mum with her baby and not a perverted man who has the right to be in there under self id.

Transwomen with dysphoria can already obtain a GRC. I have no issue with looking at ways to improve that process if there are genuine concerns, but gatekeeping is vital.

Self ID relies entirely on somebody's own word- no oversight, no diagnosis. From what I have seen the majority of TRAs who are complaining about the current process are those that might not qualify as it currently stands. They don't have dysphoria, have no intention of physically transitioning as they like their penises too much, and are heterosexual males. Can you really not see a problem with allowing fully intact males who are attracted to women into women's spaces?

And btw Donkey anybody who dismisses women being concerned about men in intimate spaces ain't no fucking feminist.

So if I'd rather someone with a penis didn't use women's facilities and safe spaces, I'm a bigot?

I am wondering just how much things will actually change if the GRA is passed. Currently, Malta, Norway, Denmark, Ireland and Belgium have all adopted the self-ID system of gender recognition - this is just in Europe. So how have things changed for them since? Stats from before and after would be useful. I would have thought there’d be some sort of proof of, say, more rapes occurring in prisons.

Anyone?

Lucky I'm just a mum with her baby and not a perverted man who has the right to be in there under self id.

Luckily a trans woman will hopefully have the right to be there too without having to answer to the likes of you with your awful prejudices. "Perverted man...under self id"?! Jesus...I hope that baby of yours has some other influences in their life to counter that disgraceful fucking language.

Ireland still segregate prisons by biological sex, I don't know about the others. I have read some accounts from Irish women that things are far from fine though.

Jesus, it’s not about the risk of seeing a willy, I’ve seen plenty and I’ve yet to be impressed. As for people seeing my VJJ I’ve had 2 kids, plenty of people have seen it at much closer range than I have myself
However, I don’t want men in women only spaces and as it seems that the definition of women is up for grabs saying “person with a penis” has somehow ( tragically ) become the clearest way to encompass all men.
Transwomen probably pose no threat to me. Perverts using self ID for their own sick pleasure probably do so the only way to keep men out of women only spaces is to specify no penises

”I'm not on the side of females, no.”

Thankfully some of us are on the side of females, @snapnfarter.

So donkey

You are telling me no man would ever claim to be a woman so that they can perv on the vulnerable for their own sexual enjoyment?

Ever?

My blood pressure rises when I see people calling themselves feminists mocking women for being wary of men. How dare you.

I don't know about other countries but Ireland still has sex segregated prisons. Their rules are not the same as what is being proposed here.

There is also the problem that under self ID, some crimes perpetrated by males will be recorded as being perpetrated by a female which obviously skews the stats.

There has also been a recent court case in Norway where a woman tried to challenge a man in a changing room and was taken to court for 'harrassment' (there is a thread on feminist chat about it).

So it's not quite the utopia being promised.

The three nearest swimming pools to me all have communal changing rooms.

I’ve also read about 2 assaults on female children in toilets by self ID transwomen, whilst their male parent waited outside

I have absolute empathy for transwomen and men who have fought hard for years to live in a body that they feel they were born in. The take meds everyday, undergo surgery and have to face bigotry and discrimination.

I have zero sympathy for the self ID, non surgically altered man who decides this is an ideal opportunity to access vulnerable women and girls in spaces where they should be safe.

Male sex offenders in female prisons, intact males who may or may not be on medication in our toilets, changing rooms etc. It’s a recipe for disaster, it’s the erosion of safety. It’s misogyny at its finest as it finally batters down our rights.

I read a twitter feed where a transwoman threatened to rape a 15year old girl with his ‘ladypenis’ because he didn’t like her tweet.

We have had a senior trans politician hide the fact her father sexually tortured a child (whilst dressed as a baby).

This is why so many women are scared, this is why there is a massive backlash against GRA. This isn’t bigotry. This is survival.

soubriquet

I think donkey thinks that no man could possibly be a pervert

Which is very sweet, if not a little naive

Absolutely, @Soubriquet. And no male rapist would ever ID as a woman to get access to vulnerable women prisoners ... Oh, wait...

And no man would ever ID as female to be able to compete against and beat natal women athletes. Except when they do, and then crow about beating the women’s world record.

No Labour Party women’s officer would ever tell women who don’t believe they are a woman that they should ‘suck my big lady cock!’

Yup - I am sure @donkey is right, and we have nothing to worry about.

OP, I think you need to do some more reading as right now your opinion is "the poor minority". It is actually much more complicated than this.

Having done a fair bit of reading I am now very clear on where I stand on this issue as a woman. If you have gender dysphoria then you have my full sympathy. If you have fully transitioned (went through the current process to get your GRC) than IMO you are a woman and should be welcome in all spaces reserved only for women. If you are in the process of transition, then again you deserve sympathy and support but need to respect women's spaces. If you are a man who decides they want to be a woman because they feel like it, but don't feel enough like one to go through the transition, then you should not be allowed to frequent female only spaces. This latter group makes up most of the people threatening women and trying to silence them. They do this because they are MEN and that is how MEN have kept women down since the start of time. Through intimidation.

I lived in Hong Kong for 7 years. There is a large transgender community there who are affectionately known as Ladyboys. They are mostly M-F. I never heard a bad word about them nor did I ever hear any animosity between women and them. Perhaps they mutually respected each other. Perhaps they didn't try to erase women and rubbed along nicely.

It is my opinion that most women had no issue with transgender M-F (they don't seem to have any issue with F-M at all) until the insults and treats started. Women feel threatened WRT their safety and rights and are quite right to do so.

There is also a case currently in Ireland where a transwoman is trying to have a criminal case dismissed because the crimes were committed by a man who no longer exists. Happy days.