To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

Luckily a trans woman will hopefully have the right to be there too without having to answer to the likes of you with your awful prejudices. "Perverted man...under self id"?! Jesus...I hope that baby of yours has some other influences in their life to counter that disgraceful fucking language.

But Donkey this is the whole point. Under self id there is nothing to stop the 'perverted man' going in the women's changing room. He wouldn't even have to bother doing the self ID because under a culture of self ID it could be transphobic to challenge a male in case they are a self identifying trans person.

Can you really not see that?

And don't tell me men won't exploit this. If you are a feminist you will already know the lengths men go to to abuse vulnerable people.

Also, are you going to answer any of my points or are you just here to shout 'prejudiced bigot'?

DonkeyHotei
counter that disgraceful fucking language
😂😂😂😂😂😂

Donkey - I'm pretty sure the PP hoping a "Perverted man...under self id"?! wouldn't be in the changing rooms wasn't referring to a Transwoman. In fact from what I'm reading here the majority women want transwomen to be treated fairly and with respect and dignity. BUT many of us are worried about the prospect of predatory heterosexual males abusing trans rights for their own ends. Especially as it's going to be incredibly difficult for women to challenge them if Self Id happens.

@DonkeyHotei

You obviously don't understand self id.

What my comment is referring to is that any perverted man, doesn't have to be trans, can enter the ladies changing room with all the little school girls getting changed for swimming, and none of us can challenge him.

I'm not saying trans people are perverts, I'm saying self id allows access to naked girls for anyone that fancies it.

Ok, so Ireland still has segregated prisons, but other than that, there does not seem to have been a rush of penises/penii entering women’s spaces and accosting women in any shape or form, because then the sheer number of this sort of thing happening would cause an increase in figures of violence in general and I would imagine there would have been some sort of outcry.

@Sarahjconnor

Yeh that isn't just what happened though. Linehan didn't just forget to use "he", he also referred to Hayden by their previous names, using photos. That's showing it's not an accidental slip-up! Hayden retaliated by posting Linehans family addresses', which was also (IMO) unacceptable behaviour - maybe even incitement.

Neither came out well if I'm honest.

@DonkeyHotei this is what Amnesty International say about single sex toilets and sleeping facilities for refugees -

we would expect immediate practical steps to be taken to protect groups most at risk of abuse such as women traveling alone and female headed families. At a minimum this would include single sex well lit toilet facilities and seperate sleeping areas

Single sex, not gender.

www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/women-refugees-face-assault-exploitation-and-sexual-harassment-journeying-through

You really think a transgender man would go through med school just so he can look at your vagina?

Probably not. I don't think other male gynaecologists went through med school for that reason either. I still have the right to request a female one.

I think most men are decent humans. I still don't want to be naked in a changing room with one I don't know.

I think most men who take part in sport are fair minded and in it for the love of it. I still don't want to have to race against them or face a tackle from one.

I think most men who volunteer want to make a positive difference and wouldn't dream of abusing a child. I still don't want my daughter taught to be ashamed of her discomfort if her boundaries don't include being helped by one to change her wet pajamas on a girl guides residential.

I think that some men are extremely vulnerable in prison, and should be protected from harm. I still don't think the solution is mixed sex prisons which make women extremely vulnerable instead.

I think that people who suffer body dysphoria and who don't fit the gender stereotypes associated with their sex often have a difficult time in life. I want them to be free from abuse, to not be discriminated against in employment or housing or access to care. I want us to break down and leave behind the stereotypes, and for everyone to feel free to express themselves in whatever harmless way they choose. I still know that 'woman' means adult human female, and that the definition of the word is important in law and in the continuing struggle for women's liberation.

Why is that so hard to understand?

HIVpos

This is quite a good thread on the subject of Ireland which also then has links to other threads as well.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3270322-Ireland-has-had-self-ID-for-several-years-with-no-problems

@DonkeyHotei

Oh and I didn't use "disgraceful" language, you did.

I don't have any issue with transgender people, their lives must be extremely difficult.

I do have concern with the self identification proposals and am a firm believer that women's spaces should be respected.

I think there is a minority of sick individuals out that that would use it for their own gain but on the whole but I do think Mumsnet is very OTT on this and many posters lump all transgender people together which is unfair.

There are also other women's issues that are equally if not more important that don't seem to be championed on here.

I never hear/see this discussed anywhere apart from MN. Some are obsessed.

In fact from what I'm reading here the majority women want transwomen to be treated fairly and with respect and dignity.BUTmany of us are worried about the prospect of predatory heterosexual males abusing trans rights for their own ends. Especially as it's going to be incredibly difficult for women to challenge them if Self Id happens.
This.
I support people who wish to fully transition to alleviate their dysphoria. (But do think there should be some things that are sex at birth e.g sports categories).
I don't support self ID because it concerns me that a particular type of men's rights activists and predatory men will be able to take advantage of situations gain access to women in order to harm them or to gain access to women's things that are there specifically to deal with the fact that there are areas women have a rougher time because they are women.
Equally, if all that is required to 'be' the opposite sex is to say 'I am a woman/man' then that leaves people with actual gender dysphoria in a vulnerable position. After all, why would they need help, support and a medical transition when the dominant ideology is that theu biology doesn't matter (and their biology is the cause of their stress and dysphoria).
Self ID is bad news for anyone other than men who want safeguards removing.

Zero issue with trans people at all.
Massive issues with men's rights activists, TRAs and self ID.

WHY NOT instead of starting a goady ignorant thread, go and READ the other threads PROPERLY and you'll see why!

It is not about sodding toilet cubicles it's about girls and women's safety and hard won rights being stolen!

It's not about SEEING a penis (though that can be upsetting for some girls and women) it's about MEN invading women's security!

You really DO need to educate yourself more than you currently are on the issue. Are you a woman? Do you have daughters?

Oh and either a first post or name change?

@chaos - there's no such thing as ' 'child porn' there's photos and videos of children being abused!

I know I'm not educated on the issue, but I don't feel the need to be. It's plain stupid and bigoted

Are you trolling? Seriously?

You're fully aware you don't actually know anything about this debate but are calling people bigots for their views which have been reached through a hell of a lot of thought and consideration of ALL sides of the debate and the rights of the different groups involved?

Given that you can't even get your basic terminology straight maybe go and read up on the subject a little before spouting off and calling concerned people bigots for daring to give a shit about women. I'd put money on the fact 'trans' doesn't mean what you think it means...

OliviaBenson (cool name), the extension of the trans umbrella has polarised the argument completely. It's now not possible to draw a distinction between a MtF with gender dysphoric and someone like Pip Bunce who is an occasional cross dresser. You either have to believe that all TWAW or that none are. I think this is what makes me angriest about the whole thing. Transsexuals have been thrown under the bus by an angry minority who want to be able to be anything they claim to be without any form of checks and balances.

Jesus, it’s not about the risk of seeing a willy, I’ve seen plenty and I’ve yet to be impressed.

I don't mean to derail, but that me do a proper snorty laugh.

@DonkeyHotei you need to take a very long, hard look at yourself. You are a traitor to women. You are imposing your bizarrely protected view of life on vulnerable women and that is disgraceful.

I pity your children with no advocate against men and male violence.

Strange though how women are supposed to be thrilled with seeing actual willies in intimate spaces but stickers in the shape of one is literal violence. I believe my local Uni is currently offering support services to anybody who was harmed by the stickers and my local police force is investigating.

maybe all those traumatised women could have thought a little bit more about the comfort and safety of trans women - it’s all well and good being traumatised by sexual assault but how very dare they make a trans woman feel unwanted as a result

is this basically it?

on a side note is there anyone at all whose interests don’t trump that of women, who women don’t have to caretake before they can do something for themselves? I expect not

Is it me or is it not a coincidence that tedious little farts like the op are out in force in the run up to closure of the GRA consultation?

”I never hear/see this discussed anywhere apart from MN. Some are obsessed.”

@maddiemookins16mum - other forums have been bullied into silencing gender critical views by the most vocal and vicious of trans activists. Women have been threatened with violence, have been doxxed and are regularly shouted down on other forums.

MN is the only place that allows polite debate and discussion about this subject - frankly, it is a haven for those of us who are afraid of the unintended consequences of allowing self-ID and who think that the rights of women and girls MATTER, and that we have a right to fight for them, without being threatened or abused.

Do you think it is OK that vocal trans activist Shon Faye actually said ‘Women - enjoy your erasure!’?

Or is it OK that convicted rapist David Thompson identified as a woman, Karen White, requested, and got a transfer to a women’s prison where they then went on to rape and/or sexually assault FOUR women prisoners?

What about the Labour Party women’s officer, who is a trans woman and says they ARE a woman, and anyone who disagrees can ’suck my big lady cock’??

How about the trans women taking places on award schemes for women, or on women only short lists for political parties, or in women’s sports - where their greater lung capacity, bone density, muscle mass and strength makes them unbeatable - and they then go on to crow about winning the women’s world record?

I am unhappy about all of this. I am afraid to speak up about it too much, on other sites, for fear of the backlash - people are out there copying posts and encouraging other trans activists to go after the people they have decided are TERFs - but I know I can speak out on here, and I value that so much.

How is mantaining a female only space battering trans people? Instead of insisting that females accept males into their spaces, maybe we should be insisting on third spaces.

Transsexuals have been thrown under the bus by an angry minority who want to be able to be anything they claim to be without any form of checks and balances.
Totally agree.
The TRA mob have done much to harm the case of genuine trans people who just want to get on with life without rewriting biology and the dictionary.

I know I'm not educated on the issue, but I don't feel the need to be.

This is one of the stupidest comments I have ever come across.

And I've listened to a lot of Trump.