To be fed up beyond belief with the trans activists

[snapnfarter]

I'm so sick of the bigotry now. Surely these people just want to have a piss in peace without being hassled?
What rights is it exactly that the trans activists are shit scared that women are going to lose out on?
I wish they'd all just be quiet and let others live their lives how they see fit without reprisal or judgement from narrow minded idiots.
I honestly feel that this debate is just a platform for the bigots to congregate to attack a minority because we all know what attaching ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians etc is just not acceptable. How is this any different?

If some men believe they can have periods and their belief is not dissuaded by psychiatric profession, how come suicidal patients who believe they should die are persuaded otherwise? What's the difference?

A few weeks ago I was in a supermarket and there was a male customer very loudly talking to the lady on the checkout, saying some odd things like claiming to be a millionaire, a rock star etc. This person was clearly male but was wearing a very short denim skirt. That's fine, wear what you like. On the way out of the shop they theatrically asked me to move my trolley so they could pass. I complied, as they passed I saw that the skirt was so short I could see almost the entirety of their bare are. Forgive me but if I was followed into a toilet by this person I would feel very scared and under the GRA would have no right to challenge their presence. I'm sorry if this makes the small minority of trans people feel upset but I think feeling hurt is better than women feeling scared.

puffuto u won’t get a logical answer from transcult.

Bit like I said my suicuidal situation was caused by onset of various things but end of day it was mental health issue.

katienana we're being told we needn't be afraid, so that solves that problem doesn't it?

IKeepFlouncing, Exactly, mental health issue. Not saying all transpeople have mental illness (before I get rebuked). So sorry to hear you went through that, I hope you are feeling well now.

So if thousands of men (theoretically speaking as I know numbers are lower) identify as women & therefore the rates of cervical cancer reduce & funded money goes elsewhere, that’s ok?

cantquitebelieveit12 That's one of my concerns. It goes far beyond who pisses where.

It actually really pisses me off that we have to take this shit, we are not even a minority, we’re 50% of the population. Still fighting for equality & still been heard.

There was a piece on the BBC news site recently about the number of sexual assaults in prisons rising. It was a dreadful piece but there was be mention of men being places in women's jails and the number of sexual assaults occurring as a result.

Ok, at serious risk of upsetting here, but....
I have strong feelings at each end of the spectrum.
In my day job, I see the unbelievably wonderful things the female body can do. To contain the spark of life, to nurture and grow that life, to enable that life to make the transition from foetus to baby, to feed that baby and enable it to grow. To have skin that will change its temperature to raise or lower that baby’s body heat. To grow an organ that feeds the growing baby, maintains the pregnancy, and is then discarded when it’s redundant. To lose an entire organ and not die.
I do my job because of the wonder I feel for the whole process, and the incredible things a woman can do. The day a male body can be modified to do that, then a trans person can truly call themselves a woman.
In the light of that, the fact that I, with a beard, shaven head and unmistakeable male characteristics, can wear my plainly male clothes and yet demand the right to be called female and be legally recognised as such is nothing short of an attack on women. It minimises the nature of women and everything about them. It reduces them to nothing, to an idea, something that can be created by a surgeon’s knife. It’s the ultimate display of male privilege. ‘I can take every essence of your sex, and reduce it to a word.’ I can look and speak and dress like a man, but demand access to female spaces. If you complain, you are transphobic AND committing sexual discrimination’ yeah right. You don’t have the slightest idea what discrimination is! Saying that is an attack on all the women who suffer attack’s each and every day.
However, this is where the lines blur...
I have friend who is trans. She has followed the whole process, lived as a woman, full gender reassignment, etc. When she started the process, she gave up her male identity, and took on a female one. She experienced sexual harassment, most of the issues faced by women. Her body is to all intents and purposes, female. So, to me, while she isnt a woman, she is the closest a trans person can get. So where does she stand? Is it inappropriate for her to use a communal female space? At some point, before her bottom surgery, she still had a penis but was outwardly female, breasts, etc. Should she have used a male space? This is the issue I have. The man who declares himself (and I mean him, not them, not her) female and then demands access to women only spaces, is a wrecker for all those (can’t think of the right word) ‘genuine trans women.

I bet rapists, perverts and peadophiles are rubbing their hands together with glee at the prospect of self ID. OP you’re an actual idiot.

Binkytheslug that is the crux of the problem.
That is why self-identification is such a huge slippery slope.

I have read most of this entire thread, including the transexuals against self id blog. I fully support the rights of transexuals. They are people who have faced a battle and must have gone through hell trying to align head and body. After gender reassignment, of course they have the rights to use female/male only spaces. I still have reservations over transexual females (born male) competing in womens only sport, as their biology gives them an advantage. I'd feel the same about an able bodies athelete competing in the paraolympics. However, I cant imagine there are any people who would undergo a full surgical reassignment in order to win at sport. So I think, as part of the debate, my view could be swayed on that issue for surgically altered transexual people. I can not, however, accept that transgender is the same thing. If you keep your biological male parts but identify as female by wearing female clothes, or visa versa, then you can not be afforded the same rights as a biologically born female or a transexual. Because you can not be a female with male parts or visa versa. It also rpyally pisses me off that wearing a dress is something only females do. It isnt, look at the clothing worn in other cultures, it has nothing to do with gender. If my daughters wanted to wear jeans, football shirts and work im construction, that would have no baring on their sex or sexuality. This idea that boys should dress one way and girls another is old fashioned. If the issue is based on going to the toilets or changing rooms, then there aught to be a third, gender neutral option. A gender neutral toilet or changing room affords people who have sex organs that differ from their gender the opportunity to 'piss in peace' without infringing on anyones rights. Im a teacher and my school has made a single cubicle toilet a gender neutral toilet. We currently have a pupil who was born female but identifies as male. The gender neutral toilet protects him completely. He doesnt have to use the female toilets just because he has a vagina. Nor is he or any of our born male pupils at any risk of anything occuring in the boys toilet that could hurt or upset them. He has a space to pee, safely. If a law was passed requiring a gender neautral space in addition to single sex spaces, then none of this would be an issue.

@Binkytheslug - I would have absolutely no problem with your friend using the female only spaces. I would guess that, before she had the bottom surgery, but had had the hormone treatment, the last thing she'd have wanted is to have someone spot that she still had her penis - plus I believe the hormone treatment can shrink it anyway.

She would simply want to use the facilities as unobtrusively as possible - which is vastly different to a predatory man using self-ID as an excuse to enter female only spaces and ogle women or make them uncomfortable by being blatant about displaying their male biology.

In some ways, self-ID and the unintended consequences for female only spaces and women's safety will also harm those genuinely trans women - people who are living full time as women and either have had, or are in the process of getting the treatment to transition fully - my guess is that these people just want to get on with living their lives, without conflict or hassle - and self-ID could cause them to be hassled more, whilst trying to simply exist.

I used to have a friend who had fully transitioned to female - the only reason I say 'used to' is that, since I moved, we have fallen out of touch - and I was entirely comfortable with using her chosen name and pronouns. I would have had no problem sharing a changing room or the loos with her because I know she respected the other women using those facilities. The last thing she would have wanted is to upset someone, or make them uncomfortable.

If self-ID comes in, a male medical practitioner's feeling that they are female would override the needs of women like @AmazingGrace16, and she could be accused of transphobia and literal violence for not wanting a male-bodied person anywhere near her antenatal care, her birth, or her post natal care. This is male violence against women, and I cannot understand any woman who would say this is OK.

@AmazingGrace16 - you are really amazing, and I hope the rest of your pregnancy and the birth go well.

errr...no, because I know what the OP meant.

Ah, the 'words don't have meaning' camp...

Loki well, it would because it still rests on the deceit that someone can change sex. They can't. And most men, post-surgery or not, still look like men and I still don't want them in women's safe spaces, because I am then colluding with the lie that they've changed sex. A chemically and surgically castrated man is still a man.

Binky - your friend hasn't just paid lipservice to womanhood. I would treat her as a woman and assume she should use womans loos and facilities - post op. Pre op I would hope that she would have understood that this wasn't her world yet and be sensitive enough to understand why.

The people that I am wary if are men who assert that they are women because they feel like one. They have no assessment, make no effort to 'become' a woman in dress, or surgery /medical intervention. They aggressively assert that they are women and some even say that they can get pregnant /breastfeed /have periods.

They say that a woman can have a penis and a big bushy beard with an adams apple. They call themselves by porn star names and dress like Barbie, anime or any other exaggerated way to draw attention to themselves.

They demand and bully. They want to erase their past male history, and criminalise anyone who 'misgenders' them or challenges them in a ladies loo.

Your friend's goal is to get on with their life and not focus daily of her birth sex.

She wants to go to work, do her shopping, book a holiday, change the kitchen doors, take the car for its MOT, take up fell running, get a dog, have a coffee with her sister, visit her mum in the hospital...

The new boys make it a bloody daily performance art, where they are the stars in their own soap opera/Made in Scunthorpe reality show... I've said it before - we are being pranked by surrealists.

@sdt
Thank you for your well wishes x

River, I think you and I will disagree on that point. For me, surgical reassignment is as close as a person can get, despite it not being possible to change sex on a genetic level. That is good enough for me. A person who has removed their penis and had surgically alterted to create something that resembles a vagina, is not capable of raping me. Like many other posters have said, they are likely to be more focussed on living their every day life in a body that now more closesly matches how they feel in their heart and head. Someone who keeps their penis but wants to use female spaces because they identify as female can use a gender neutral space. Respectful of their choice, but not infringing on my rights as a female.

Yes, I understand that and agree, but for me the much bigger picture is that on a societal level we should not be telling people it's possible to change sex, I think that's immensely damaging. Even with surgery a man still looks like a man and everyone can see that, and in order to make that man feel good about himself we all have to accept the delusion - and not everyone will, and nor should they have to. It seems a poor way to deal with a serious mental health condition. And the unintended (or possibly intended?) consequence is that all the fetishists and abusers and groomers get a free pass into women's spaces, because the bottom line is that GRC or no, if it's put out there that males can enter female spaces, who is going to check to see if someone's had surgery and how can it be enforced?

The only way is for no men, under any circumstances, to be allowed into women's safe spaces.

Fekko, that’s my point I think. For every blatantly male activist, there are thousands of trans men and women who have made the ultimate step in becoming who they really are. I imagine they feel as much animosity towards the TA’s as cis women do. All they want is to quietly get on with their lives in the gender they have chosen. They are no more likely to wave their genitalia as any other woman. The TA’s who are men calling themselves women, who scream ‘transphobia!!!’ when challenged, knacker things for genuine trans people.

Im telling you, it's a the surrealists gaslighting us.

Binky, that person has transitioned rather than just self declared. I just about never use public loos so I am not sure why so many people out there seem to be in and out of them all the time, but for those twho are, a tarns person who has not yet moved fully over could presumably just drink a bit less or got at home rather than needing constant use of the ladies loos if she still had a penis and women might be afraid of her.

I never use public loos (unless desperate) either.

This goady and ignorant post makes me wonder if OP is Adrian Harrop and has decided to spread his vile misogyny on MN too…