To think she's a scruffbag

[cosyjimjams]

NC for this, I promise I am a regular user (sister and friends on here)
My DD (12) is extremely lazy when it comes to her personal hygiene.
Bit of a backstory, she's pretty overweight and has started her period around a year so as you can imagine puberty has hit big time. She has started smelling of b.o on a daily basis, her hair is becoming greasy a lot quicker than usual and she is lying about brushing her teeth.
If we tell her it's bath time after her tea she literally tries every trick in the book to get out of going in it (tired, hungry, headache, thirsty and so on) I have never ever known her to just go and get a bath or shower off her own back. If it's also washing hair night then the attitude we get off her is disgraceful. If she's on her period then she doesn't seem to care that she has a slight odour about her and that it's the most important time of the month to be clean.
We have bought her deodorants and kids perfume and explained the importance of spraying every morning and every evening after her bath as her school uniform is now becoming stained under the armpits from sweating through the day.
On a morning before school we have to physically take her to the bathroom to brush her teeth or she lies and says she has already.
Is every kid such hard work like this or just our daughter?
Before anyone asks, she has no SN she is a very bright and clever young girl.
I would have thought at secondary school she would be more inclined to start looking after herself a little bit more and being more clean and tidy. She won't even brush her hair unless she's physically handed a hairbrush.
Don't get me started on the state of her bedroom. It's like she's destined to just be a scruff. She's told us that kids at school have said she smells and it's just gutting that whatever we are telling her is not going in. We don't want our daughter being known as the smelly kid at school.
Her dad and I are both clean and well presented so we don't understand where we have gone wrong.

Does anyone have any advice on how we can start making some changes. It would be a great help!

According to MN everyone has special needs or mental health problems, unless they're over 60 in which case they have dementia. Utter bollocks. Well done, OP, for giving those theories short shrift.

My son was like this at around the same age. I was brutal, told him he stank and was making the house stink. Gave him a deodorant and told him a daily shower or bath was non negotiable. It worked.

I was a bit similar at that sort of age. I started my periods in the summer between primary and secondary schools and then puberty kicked in big time. I was very sweaty, spotty, greasy and no doubt smelly. I was unhappy with my body (I kept praying my breasts would stop growing and was horrified at developing hips and curvier thighs) and I really didn't enjoy having to touch it to wash myself. I also found secondary school very tiring, and just wanted to flop on my bed afterwards and not move. I can't recall how often I actually made myself shower, but probably only 2-3 times a week. I used to cry about the fact I had such huge sweat patches on my school uniform.

I still feel shame about my lack of personal care then, and I wish my parents had taught me about hygiene and enforced certain basic standards. I suspect if they thought about it at all they decided they didn't want to upset me - they were extremely conflict-averse. It'd be easy for somebody to say that as a clever child I should just have understood common sense basics of washing daily to keep the sweat at bay (I used to just apply layer after layer of antiperspirant on dirty skin), but I didn't so my parents should have stepped up and talked to me.

Anyway, I think my point is that whatever methods you have to use to make sure your daughter washes herself regularly, she'll most likely look back on it in a couple of years time and be grateful.

I was pretty much the same at that age actually. My parents didn't push me enough though, they said I should bathe more but never really forced me into it, so I only had a bath about once a week, didn't even comb my hair

Honestly it's sort of horrifying to look back on, but I was very depressed and overweight as well. One day though I suddenly changed, I lost the weight and now if anything I bathe too much. She'll get through it if you push her hopefully.

@ftfoawygtfosm LOL. He's 11. He literally couldn't give two hoots about privacy. And if he did, I wouldn't be standing over him.

God don't some people on here have some funny ideas? Some absolute weirdos roam Mumsnet. Thank god there's also normal posters

Really? An 11 year old who doesn’t insist on privacy? I am amazed considering that many younger children do insist on it.

@FruitofAutumn

What an absolute dick you sound. Trying to make washing an 11 year olds hair into something somehow sexually motivated - this says quite a lot about you. I'm embarrassed for you that your disturbed mind goes to such places. Weird

I wouldn’t expect the average 12 year old to take themselves off for a bath of their own accord. It’s not a big treat at their age, just a boring thing that their Mum forces them to do, much like eating broccoli. Mine go in the bath every other day no matter what, they’re 12 and 15, the 15 year old usually daily. Any face pulling and devices got taken away or WiFi switched off. It’s non negotiable.

Yes really.

God the freaks on here never fail to astound me. Just bizarre thought patterns. Like nudity is something to be shied away from as soon as possible. That children must not be assisted with hair washing because they're SHOCK HORROR 11!

Only younger children who've been brought up to do so. Some households are pretty relaxed about nudity, our included.

OP, you come across as not liking your own daughter very much. Maybe that is part of her problem?

If she gets on well with her Grandparents could they maybe sit down and talk to her?

This is shocking- you shouldn't be in the bathroom when your 11 yo is naked .very inappropriate and blurring boundaries hmm

This is interesting (and ridiculous). My abusive ex H used to say that as well. He was always looking for ways to attack every aspect of my parenting though. If I hadn’t helped them he’d have moaned about that too. I’m surprised to come across someone else who thinks in this weird way.

@CarolDanvers ah they're all on Mumsnet these people. And glad to hear he's now an ex

Both my nieces were exactly like this at that age and grew out of it. We insisted on morning showers and supervised teeth cleaning and left the rest (apart from used sanpro left lying around which incurred talk from me on first occasion with warning that any subsequent occurrence would be tackled by dh instead) in both cases it was laziness not anything else

Thank you for everyone's replies. I have read them all and again there is so much good advice here that I can take forwards and put into action. I can't reply to everyone individually but also thank you to everyone that has been understanding.
Just for the record, I don't dislike my child at all. The fact that someone has said that is pretty disgusting to be honest.

I don't go in the bathroom when my 11 year old boy is showering but he wouldn't care if I did.

He often comes into my room afterwards in his towel and gets dry in front of me. Not all kids are bothered about their bodies.

OP. Totally understand and it's extremely difficult. You could've been writing about our daughter! although ours will make herself presentable for school. She has depression recently diagnosed so low mood etc getting worse. Maybe your daughter has low mood too.
Bad periods which we know is a hassle at the best of times but for a 12 year old it's worse.
Children blow things out of proportion as we know so little things become a major issue for them.
It's really difficult but hopefully she'l come through it in the end. I found that running her a bath with extra nice bubble bath ( which she chose herself!) and sitting in there with her doing a face pack or treatment for her hair helped.
We got a nice towelling dressing gown slippers etc to help.

Just have to stress she'l feel a whole lot better when she's had a shower/ bath etc. Give incentives too. Even though you probably are doing these things it's just perseverance and hoping it'l pass sooner than later. It is very hard though. Don't understand these weird comments on here which are nothing to do with your problem at all. Ignore them. Good luck.

It's pretty normal behaviour for young teens so don't be getting too stressed about it. It's just another phase that lots go through and, interestingly, my friends with girls seem to report it more often.

I used to say to my boys "how come I still have to tell you to brush your teeth after saying it every day for 15yrs"

Mine are now 16 & 18 and my complaint these days is "are you in the bathroom again? You might as well just sleep in there" 

Remind her to wash/brush and step back.

My sister was exactly the same between the ages of 11 and nearly 14. My parents had to withhold pocket money until basic hygiene standards were met.

I think a mix of hardline ‘Poor hygiene is not acceptable and you will keep yourself clean.’ and ‘This doesn’t have to be a chore, let’s go choose some nice soap/shampoo and have a pamper session.’ would be the route I would take.

Heap on the praise when she does any self care of her own accord however small it may be.

I find it sad that fruitofautumn feels it's wrong to see your own child naked. Really sad.

I have only recently stopped showering and washing my 11 year old DS, he wanted me to 'help' him and has only in the last couple of weeks wanted to try and shower him self.

I find it sad that fruitofautumn feels it's wrong to see your own child naked. Really sad.

I agree. If the child doesn't object then I don't see the issue.

My daughter is 8 and does her own teeth, showers, washes hair etc without being told she has too.

Has she always been this way since little or is this a new thing?

I agree. If the child doesn't object then I don't see the issue.

And that's the key thing - if the child doesn't object. People are making blanket statements on here about whether or not it's OK to see your child naked at 11, this should be based on what the child feels, not what their mother happens to deem 'natural'. I was a very private child and by 11 would have hated to be seen naked by my mother.

OP - I totally get it - I have 11.5 yo DD who I have similar issues with - maybe not as bad but deffo isn't too bothered about hygiene. If you say you have a bright happy girl I actually believe you. Transitioning from non-smelly child's body to hormonal stinky teenage body is sometimes something they don't really want to face up to & just bury their heads in the sand. Probably in the hopes that they will 'get away with it'! Mine is terrible for not washing her hair even when she's been told/asked loads of times she claims to have "forgotten". Gives me the rage sometimes! Usually there is something more interesting to do than wash!

I don't think it's at all abusive to point out that they need to wash, use deodorant, clean teeth or they will smell/ look unclean/ have rotten teeth/ be on the end of unkind comments!! On the flip side of that allowing poor hygiene could be classed as neglect.

I do, and I nearly always (to their horror) put it into the context of changing bodies / hormones etc. Literally had to tell DS his spots are worse if he doesn't wash his hair because of all the atmospheric grime & tiny particles of dust and dirt that are going to get stuck there if it's greasy & end up on his face. It sunk in & he got his hair cut & started to wash it more often.

DD is getting there - I also think with mine she's really busy does loads of sport and dance and is just really tired, not depressed! Morning showers will not work for her as she is at her raging hormonal worst first thing so evening it is.

Our routine is later though - mine would rage if I said to shower at 7pm. Kids have dinner between 5:30-6:30 (due to 6yoDS) then either homework (one night 6.30-7:30 dance) or chill out until bedtime - gadgets handed in - shower / teeth / bed - maybe reading for 20 mins before lights out. DD goes up to her shower between 8 & 8:30pm depending on the day.

Maybe try agreeing with her a daily schedule that she prefers - quick shower not bath maybe a bit later? In return for her washing properly & using deodorant? It really doesn't have to take long to wash yourself properly! Good luck OP!

I'd try and go the whole 'pamper/spa' route. Maybe get her some nice bath bombs or soap from Lush, a hair/face mask, light some candles round the bath, give her a nice fluffy bath robe. Would doing an actual spa day at a hotel encourage her? Or a nice hair cut/blow dry to encourage her into keeping her hair nice? What's her skin like - would she be interested in a shopping day to get a few basic but upmarket skincare bits from a nice department store?