To think she's a scruffbag

[cosyjimjams]

NC for this, I promise I am a regular user (sister and friends on here)
My DD (12) is extremely lazy when it comes to her personal hygiene.
Bit of a backstory, she's pretty overweight and has started her period around a year so as you can imagine puberty has hit big time. She has started smelling of b.o on a daily basis, her hair is becoming greasy a lot quicker than usual and she is lying about brushing her teeth.
If we tell her it's bath time after her tea she literally tries every trick in the book to get out of going in it (tired, hungry, headache, thirsty and so on) I have never ever known her to just go and get a bath or shower off her own back. If it's also washing hair night then the attitude we get off her is disgraceful. If she's on her period then she doesn't seem to care that she has a slight odour about her and that it's the most important time of the month to be clean.
We have bought her deodorants and kids perfume and explained the importance of spraying every morning and every evening after her bath as her school uniform is now becoming stained under the armpits from sweating through the day.
On a morning before school we have to physically take her to the bathroom to brush her teeth or she lies and says she has already.
Is every kid such hard work like this or just our daughter?
Before anyone asks, she has no SN she is a very bright and clever young girl.
I would have thought at secondary school she would be more inclined to start looking after herself a little bit more and being more clean and tidy. She won't even brush her hair unless she's physically handed a hairbrush.
Don't get me started on the state of her bedroom. It's like she's destined to just be a scruff. She's told us that kids at school have said she smells and it's just gutting that whatever we are telling her is not going in. We don't want our daughter being known as the smelly kid at school.
Her dad and I are both clean and well presented so we don't understand where we have gone wrong.

Does anyone have any advice on how we can start making some changes. It would be a great help!

LanaorAna2

Australians have (mild) bleach baths to clear BO - a small squirt in a big tub works wonders.

Most Australians do not have bleach baths. Where did you find out about this. I'm not saying no one does it, but it's definitely not typical.

I was the same way around that age and it took a few very harsh comments from other kids to do something about it.

This is shocking- you shouldn't be in the bathroom when your 11 yo is naked .very inappropriate and blurring boundaries

Nonsense.

If he’s so lazy he’d rather have his Mum wash his hair then that’s up to him (and her). If he wants privacy in the bathroom then he needs to wash his own hair properly.

Plenty of families are quite happy being naked around each other their whole lives, stop making something of it that it’s not.

Shower before school and she needs more responsibility. At her age I cleaned the kitchen and did the dishwasher before school. Cooked some basic evening meals. Took my younger sister to clubs. Hovered did loads of washing. Made drinks. Visited grandparents most days and helped with their shopping. Got a Saturday job at 14. Plus much more. She doesn't need to do all these things but she certainly needs to know how to look after herself. If she is struggling to understand the importance of hygiene and has no responsibilities...what are you teaching her? I now have 3dcs. Eldest is 5 and is to help me get things when asked. Make water or squash drinks for himself and brother. His younger brother is nearly 4 and they are both expected to tidy up their toys and get nappiescetc for me from their location as asked
They will get more as they grow

By 12 I was changing beds, doing the dishwasher, hoovering and polishing, mowing the lawn, putting washing on, ironing, cooking and baking, and anything else I could help with including diy.

My parents wanted to make sure I could do basic things and it has seriously helped with living on my own. Before my dh I was with some seriously useless mamma boys and it drove me insane.

With looked after children the foster carers are encouraged to teach the children basic chores.

I have personally always found a roll on better than a spray deodorant, mitchum has been my go to for years.

She sounds absolutely brilliant. Why are you worried? Let her be who she wants to be and develop in her own way.

Leave her alone and worry about stuff that actually matters.

Don’t agree with this. I think poor hygiene and body and breath smelling and discernible period odour does matter

Umm - did I read right that the girl has a bath every evening?

How can she smell so much?

@outreach29 she's probably not actually washing herself with soap.

I agree some people MN have the weirdest views. I think you should be banned from commenting on a particular issue unless you have been through it yourself or had DC that age.

MH or learning difficulty suggestions for a soap dodging pubescent child? Ridiculous. It's perfectly normal, I remember my own mother telling me I smelt of BO at 13.

DS was always ridiculously clean, but then he was interested in girls pretty young. DD would have gone to school in a five day old shirt, with green teeth and dirty underwear at 13 if I had let her.

She was a real battle to get into a hygiene routine and I don't think she fully grasped it until about 15.

Oh and she's just graduated as a HCP from a RG uni, without a CAMHS referred! - she does still have to buy Mitchum deodorant though as she can be a sweaty Betty!

Why why why does the default reaction to every issue on Mumsnet have to be "is it insert mental health problem here?"

Diluting mental health issues just makes it harder for them to be recognised and taken seriously.

Australians have (mild) bleach baths to clear BO - a small squirt in a big tub works wonders.

I can say unequivocally that they definitely don’t!

We had a milder version op so sympathy. I was driven to being blunt and just insisted on shower standing outside bathroom like a Sargent major. When picking up dds friends after school a wave of bo had to open car windows!

Mine like the Lush shop and getting products from there prompted washing abit. Think it's a funny stage they old enough to smell but young enough not to care...

I would second changing deodorant. I have to swap every now and again as they sometimes seem to stop working, then I switch brands and it's fine again.

My current fave is triple dry and mitchum is really effective too.

Sounds to me like a laziness thing, but maybe once she finds a routine that she enjoys, she'll get more into it.

Honestly think chores would help too - she NEEDS to develop more of a sense of personal responsibility, whatever your husband says.

Until you can get the whole shower in the morning thing happening, have you considered one of those long lasting deodorants you put on at night?

www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/272191840

Maybe your husband can't accept her growing up hence the babying treatment with no chores etc.? He isn't being fair on her. Chores are a normal part of an independent, fulfilling life not a punishment.

If I were your daughter, I would be feeling very demoralised at the moment. She is 12 and you are marching her to the bathroom like a small child, telling her she smells and telling her she won't make friends, when she is already suffering . She sounds depressed, and as though she has poor self esteem.
Maybe what she actually needs is a bit of love and kindness? If I were you I might take her shopping for new clothes, plan a nice day out just the two of you, or try to strengthen the relationship first. She needs to feel good about herself. This age is awful for young girls, they need all the encouragement and positive feedback they can get. Being told you smell , whilst true, is difficult to hear. Maybe she feels that by resisting you she is exercising the only power she feels she has.
It's a bit humiliating too that you know when she has her period. It doesn't sound like she has much privacy.

I was a bit similar at 12 or so, main issue was my hair; long, thick heavy - total nightmare to wash/dry/style, took most of my evening up when I’d rather have been doing something else. It changed after a couple of months; started going into town with my friends and discovered the Body Shop (wish Fuzzy Peach and Dewberry would make a come back).

I shower at night now as I’m usually up for work at 4 and just can’t bring myself to shower at that time in the morning. I shower and then use Sure Maximum protection and then Right Guard spray in the morning. If I feel like I need a refresh in the morning , I’ll use Temple Spa Take a Grip (sadly, I don’t think it’s available anymore) or a mousse cleanser from Boots (can’t remember the name but is usually with bath/shower stuff).

Leave her to it. You've told her she smells? When her school friends tell her she'll change to a bathroom occupier.

Doesn’t she get pocket money? I’d stop it until she could keep herself clean.

My dd could be a bit of a scruff but she’s getting a lot better now and almost 14. We were quite tough on her about it though. Having a wash is non negotiable.

Is she washing hair every day? Get a decent shower cap. DD washes hair every third day using dry shampoo applied the night before 3rd day and hair up on 3rd day. I’d stick to shower in evening rather than morning so hair dries over night.
Use roll on rather than spray deo. Have makeup wipes to wipe face in morning if she won’t use a flannel.
Buy non scented pads for period time - I think the scented ones have a horrible odour. If my DD is a bit whiffy I tell her. I think it’s my responsibility as a mum.
You sound like a lovely mum I’m sure it’ll all sort itself.

Try that Mitchum deodorant stuff: you can put it on at night (you can make sure she does it) and it stops you sweating in the night so she will be fresh for school and it keeps you fresh all day.

What you describe isn't that unusual. I've now got adult kids. Mine weren't too bad but quite a few if my friends went through similar phases with teen daughters. Some stuff pretty grim for a while. We had a teeth brushhing dodger for a couple of years and I couldn't understand the lies and upset over that. It used to drive me mad.

Just keep.supporting her the way you are. Teens girls can be so nasty ro eaxh other so yes i would be dorxing hygiene issues before she makes herself a target.

I'm hitting the menopause and have increased body odour ams notoced a change in sweating myself. Ive discovered Mitcham Ultimate Cream deodrant. Its not cheap at a fiver a bottle but stopped the smell and yellow staining on my work uniform blouses I had started to get. It may be worth a go for your daughter.

I think those Mitchum deodorants don't even work and I've tried loads. I think the best is Sure and those Sure cream sticks which are £5.00, expensive but worth it if you do a lot of sport or sweat a lot.
What can you do apart form keep encouraging her? I do wonder if she is depressed, would a trip to the G.P be worth it?
Also if she not brushing her teeth properly she could end up with tooth decay at a young age. Its not unknown for teenagers to have lots of extractions and end up with dentures. I'd tell his this as well.

www.wilko.com/en-uk/sure-maximum-protection-anti-perspirant-cream-45ml/p/0335748.
Here we are,it this one that's very good.

My ds, 14, was a real soap dodger until quite recently and really resisted showering (he never has baths). I had to remind him a lot and ‘bargain’ with him when he was going to have one. Thankfully he didn’t smell (he’d put deodorant on in lieu of a shower!!) but now he is definitely showering more often and I haven’t had to nag him for ages. Could be interest in girls, age, getting more mature. I haven’t asked!
I do find w my dd though, if I ask her to do things she’s less likely to do them esp if it’s something personal hygiene related. She used to be worried about showering when on her period but we spoke about it and it was fine. Could this be part of the issue with your dd?

We went through a milder version of this op when dd was about 8-13 yrs. All I seemed to do during that period was nag about showering, teeth and hair-brushing and as I wouldn't let her get away with not doing it, we had quite a lot of stressful confrontations about it and it was very wearing. She wasn't depressed; just a bit lazy! Then, around the time of her 14th birthday, everything suddenly changed! She now spends hours in the bathroom and regularly uses every clean towel in the house! She and her friends now seem to waft about in permanent rose scented clouds!

This too shall pass.

I know a LOT of Australians...not a single one of them have ever mentioned beach baths. Maybe the poster mean Austrians? It’s deffo not common in Australia 🤣

Cosy. It’s not at all abnormal for your Dd’s age group to feel they have better things to do than waste time showering, worse yet, bathing. It doesn’t have to be a sign of anything more than CBA. I didn’t go through that stage because from being very young having a shower when we got up was just what happened, we all had to be out of the house, together, very early so there was a set order of showering and no messing about else everyone was late and that included my Dad for work and that wasn’t happening. Even now, I HATE it if I can’t have a shower when I get up and don’t feel properly awake all day. Obviously you can’t go back in time, but you can start today. Up, shower, deodorant, teeth, dressed...nightmare in the wash. Not negotiable. Every. Single. Day. Forget the options & messing about. There is no option. IF she wants a bath/shower laterrrrrrrrrr....fine, she can...but in ADDITION to the non negotiable morning routine. Also the ‘I had one last night...’ the only reply to that is ‘Lovely, but that doesn’t change the morning routine’. It just has to become a non negotiable part of her day.

I have long hair, it’s very healthy, if hers needs washing daily it needs washing daily and contrary to old school thinking it does not ‘damage your hair’ or any other nonsense. But experiment with other shampoos & conditioners.

As was said earlier, Dove original blue top is good (the formula of the others in the range is different, some I find ok, others not, dark blue is reliably good).

As for her shirts, the Dove will help with that. You don’t need to replace them though. Buy some boxes of DrBeckman sachets of laundry whitener (pretty much all supermarkets have them, I use one in any whites wash), wash on 40 deg and hang them outside in the sunlight...leave them out as long as possible. It might take more than go, but they will be fresh and clean/bright.