To think she's a scruffbag

[cosyjimjams]

NC for this, I promise I am a regular user (sister and friends on here)
My DD (12) is extremely lazy when it comes to her personal hygiene.
Bit of a backstory, she's pretty overweight and has started her period around a year so as you can imagine puberty has hit big time. She has started smelling of b.o on a daily basis, her hair is becoming greasy a lot quicker than usual and she is lying about brushing her teeth.
If we tell her it's bath time after her tea she literally tries every trick in the book to get out of going in it (tired, hungry, headache, thirsty and so on) I have never ever known her to just go and get a bath or shower off her own back. If it's also washing hair night then the attitude we get off her is disgraceful. If she's on her period then she doesn't seem to care that she has a slight odour about her and that it's the most important time of the month to be clean.
We have bought her deodorants and kids perfume and explained the importance of spraying every morning and every evening after her bath as her school uniform is now becoming stained under the armpits from sweating through the day.
On a morning before school we have to physically take her to the bathroom to brush her teeth or she lies and says she has already.
Is every kid such hard work like this or just our daughter?
Before anyone asks, she has no SN she is a very bright and clever young girl.
I would have thought at secondary school she would be more inclined to start looking after herself a little bit more and being more clean and tidy. She won't even brush her hair unless she's physically handed a hairbrush.
Don't get me started on the state of her bedroom. It's like she's destined to just be a scruff. She's told us that kids at school have said she smells and it's just gutting that whatever we are telling her is not going in. We don't want our daughter being known as the smelly kid at school.
Her dad and I are both clean and well presented so we don't understand where we have gone wrong.

Does anyone have any advice on how we can start making some changes. It would be a great help!

Well... I'd nip this in the bud before it even got to this stage. I have a lazy 11 year old boy. I turn on shower or bath daily and dunk him in there. I'll literally hand him the sponge with gel or soap on it and stand over him. I'll wash his hair as he's useless at rinsing it out. I then stand over him re his teeth and same with deodorant. He didn't have SN as such but he's been slower than others his age the personal care - so I help him

Only takes a few minutes a day and as a result of those few minutes, he's always clean and fresh smelling. Left to his own devices, he wouldn't be

Try helping her out for a little while and see how that goes

I would cut out the baths and encourage her to shower instead. Baths are time-consuming and juvenile. A shower can do what a bath can do with ten times the efficiency of a bath.

I do think there might be a mental health struggle going on here. Even the funniest, most jovial people can be depressed. She's overweight - she is likely aware of this, whether you think she is or not - she's completely indifferent about her hygiene and the impact it has on her and the people around her etc. This doesn't seem like "normal" teenage grubbiness to me.

Before anyone asks, she has no SN she is a very bright and clever young girl SN's don't necessarily preclude a child being bright and clever. My first thought was perhaps sensory issues. Lots of children with sensory problems don't like the feel of water, brushing teeth or hair etc.

If you are pretty certain that there is no underlying reason other than laziness, have you specifically asked her why she doesn't want to shower?

From what you have said about her being a bright, funny child - is this her only way of rebelling?

I would avoid putting her down or telling her that people won't like her (although she sounds pretty level headed about this), but still it can be damaging to her self-esteem to hear that people will only like her if she is clean and shiny.

Would she respond to a reward system of some kind? If she has showers every week day morning, she can have an extra hour on social media...or gets to stay up half an hour later or something?

From my small experience of working in a youth centre it can often be a control thing a bit like eating.

They are the ones that have to put the spray on etc.

Have you tried asking her when she wants to shower, ask her to pick her own deodorant, does she have a choice in her hair style?

I know when I started high school I didn't really care about these things, within about 2 years I was showering daily and making sure everything was fresh and carrying impulse Zen (miss that stuff) in my bag constantly.

Op l have just read your update that she doesn't have any chores as she is 'too young'

Mine have had chores since 6! ...now they
Tidy their rooms when asked
Put their laundry in the basket
they help fold the laundry at the weekend and put their own away.
can put a load of washing on or take it out and hang it up if asked
take turns to unload the dishwasher in the mornings
lay and clear the table at mealtimes,
DD cleans and feeds her Guinea pigs before school
Ds feeds and takes out his dog in the garden before school....
Ds helps me take the bins out!

You need to stop babying her she is a very capable 12!

I’d say normal. Pretty much every teen goes through this phase. Mine are 25/22/19 and the phrase “ you stink , you are not sitting at the dinner table till you have showered” has been uttered many times - after trying tact and encouragement first.

I also have been known , at around 13yrs to get son out of bed to clean his teeth - that’s non negotiable.

They are all now perfectly acceptably clean humans now and not traumatised by bluntness.

Interestingly youngest still lives in a pit when Home from uni. The older 2 live away and, whilst not immaculate their homes are much tidier ( I’m not immaculate either 😂)

Shower. It's quicker - tell her it will be over in 2 minutes.

It will pass. Many children/teenagers go through a phase like this. Pain in the arse, though.

I wouldn’t be standing over my 11 year old while they shower. Massive invasion of privacy there.

I was like that about 12/13, although I hadn't start menstruating yet so things weren't perhaps quite so pressing. I lied about showering and think I went for 6 (!) weeks once without washing my hair. **

The following year, I was taking 6 showers a day. Baths of any duration from 30 minutes to 2 hours have been a standard feature every since.

I agree with the morning showers, hormone ridden teens are terrible night sweaters - by the time she's getting dressed for school she'll have 12 hours of sweat built up, no wonder she's whiffing a bit.

Stronger anti perspirant too, rather than deodorant.

My DD (12) would happily avoid showers and toothbrushing. She's young for her age - not aware of boys etc, plays with dolls still. Very bright and capable with lots of friends etc. Just starting puberty so the sweating is new but she was resisting showers and it was getting a battle. I just had to get tougher, insist on her having a shower each evening (she hates mornings and stays in bed as long as possible) she won't wear deodorant but I nag and stand over her now until she does. Teeth I stand over her and have got her out of bed at night a few times to brush.

I found once I got tougher, consistently she got much better but it's still sometimes an issue.

I was exactly like this when I was younger and I honestly can’t tell you why. I just didn’t want to, it wasn’t important to me.

I started getting better at 16ish, when I got my first boyfriend.

No chores at her age is pretty

You do get the link between a kid having household responsibilities, and them developing personal responsibility? And the one between cleaning/folding chores, developing skills and normalising ‘looking after our belongings and ourselves’?

There’s a reason so many of us sat through 4yo kids doing their ‘chores’ soooo slowly (and usually making making more work). So that when they got to 12 it was obvious and a non-issue.

If her father is really preventing you from teaching her basic personal responsibility and hygiene (for a decade), then I hope you have him front and centre pushing her now to brush her teeth, etc. Let him reap what he’s sown.

And no child of mine who didn’t wash would have access to a device, either. If only to keep it clean.

I would imagine that actually she is very depressed about her weight and she is using this as a way to mask it, even if she can't articulate that she's actually depressed about her weight been there done that

I was the same at that age. I wasn’t depressed. I was just lazy. I usually had my nose in a book and really washing etc just wasn’t high on my list of priorities 🤷‍♀️

I’m wondering if getting her into a team sport might help?

They drill routine, and showering afterwards is normal.

Also, it sounds like her fitness might benefit from it?

Thank you everyone. There is some really constructive advice here and I will be sure to show her dad this thread and try and see what we can put into place.
Definitely think the morning shower seems to be the way to go. We will get her up earlier and just tell her it's the usual time she gets up.
Hopefully she does just grow out of it. We have sat her down and spoke to her recently about this and told her all about the importance of hygiene. Her response is that it's boring and she can't be bothered.
I do believe she is just lazy and there isn't anything further going on with her. She's a very open kid and would just tell us if she was struggling with anything.
We have never told her she smells neither, nor have we been horrible to her about this. We are very supportive and are trying to help her as much as we can so the comments suggesting I am repulsed and disgusted by her were quite nasty.
Again, thank you to everyone that gave advice I do feel a lot better knowing I am not alone in worrying!

This is probably stupid but word for word I was the same as your daughter- teeth and all. I have dyspraxia, adhd and autism runs in my family - maybe look into ‘executive function’ (understanding things like this may help you help your daughter) I still struggle with a lot of the things but some of tge things that push me to do what it seems your daughter doesn’t is how it makes me feel - maybe instead of directly to her telling her things talk about it to your husband or partner (ooh I must have a wash after - I feel gross/ my teeth feel gross) when she can hear you, maybe along with the being told to this will overtime help her to think about the negative impact about not performing in positive behaviour (sorry for the long response x)

Haha! It will change. Once boys come to the picture you wish she would exit the bathroom and stop killing the houseplants with overpowering perfume when she finally does make an exit:)))

DD was a bath dodger at about 12, she was a bit wiffy and scruffy too. No amount of nagging helped then at 13/14 something clicked and now she spends hours in there. The bedroom however is still a work in progress, I just don't go in or we end up arguing, if she wants to live in a shit pit so be it.

Tell her she smells fgs!!! If her own mother can't say "You stink - get in the shower now or no dinner!" then who the hell can?

Stop pussyfooting around her because she's a girl. If she was a boy you'd be telling her she reeked and shoving her towards the bathroom.

I've been through this too. Got two sons. One I never had to nag - he was always clean and showered umprompted every day. The other not so much. He will shower in the morning before school, but will let things go over weekends and holidays. I've told him in no uncertain terms before that he smells socially unnacceptable and had better get in the bloody shower right now. I have no problem being blunt - he simply can't go round smelling like that.

To clarify I meant instead of saying you will stink talk about how gross stinking is in ear shot - all while still maintaining that she must wash and beush etc

At the risk of overthinking I wonder if it could be a self esteem thing, especially if her classmates are passing comment. I also don't see how she could be so terribly smelly if she is having a full on bath daily.

I think switching to morning showers could improve things quite a lot, though it could be tricky to squeeze in.

Do a 12 year old's shirts really get stained under the arms from sweat stains? That does seem quite extreme if your washing machine is doing its job and she only wears them one day, especially if she's having daily baths. Could the stains themselves be what's smelling, rather than her? Clothes can develop a thing where they smell OK when dry, but quickly start to stink if they get even slightly damp.

Is she actually washing herself with soap in the bath? If so, she shouldn't really smell although I agree a morning shower is probably better for a teen.