What would your punishment be?

[Gizzygizmo]

my 7 year old destroyed his bedroom as we said he can't go outside after back chatting and refusing to get changed out school uniform.
He tipped every toy out his toy box including Lego and a bag full of pens and pencils, pulled all his clothes out his wardrobe including the pole, dvds flung all over the place. Literally like a tornado came through his bedroom.
He's refused to clean it and has said he don't want to clean it, he would rather we do it for him.
We said if we do it were bagging it all up and taking it away... he don't care, he said throw them away then
We have literally ran out of punishments to give till its done, he still don't care.
When he's sat up there attempting to Do it he draws all over himself and his stuff.
This morning I had enough and said I would guide him telling him what to do, BUT im not helping as he done it all himself so he has to learn, still didn't help even me being there telling him.
AIBU not helping him clean it up? And what would others do?

[Andthentherewere5]

I would have done exactly the same as you. Well done, keep going!

[Jellycatspyjamas]

My DD is also 7 and very like that in that she’ll do the smiling, not bothered thing when she’s done something wrong. In truth she’s absolutely devastated about being in trouble but in the moment it’s far too vulnerable for her to admit that or let me see any sign of it. All that repeated punishments do is reinforce the shame she already feels about herself.

In that situation with her, I’d work alongside her to clean up the mess, because I think she deserves somewhere nice to sleep and rest, regardless of her behaviour. We’d talk about general stuff as we worked together. If I end up doing more than her, it’s no biggie.

Knowing my DD, I know that bathtime is a good time for her to talk about harder stuff, so that’s when we’d talk about what happened, why she got so angry and how sad and angry I was when she trashed her room and we’d look for other choices she could have made. I know during that conversation there would be tears and remorse and apologies - I don’t need to punish it out of her, nor would I want to.

It’s very hard but my longer term goal is having a child who is secure in our relationship and who can cope with strong feelings. At that age that level of bad behaviour is a communication of things that are overwhelming, so starting communication again is key.

[hibeat]

I've had it. You do know that the bin is only a visual solution to a problem that has not been dwelt with. I believe that you are an excellent mum and that you will find the exact way to deal with him. Some parent try to brake their kids then they don't understand that they cannot be leaders later on. A will has to be directed in the right direction, you have taken the right steps in my opinion. I am certain your son is sweet : you would not have been appalled it this was his usual self.

[youarenotkiddingme]

The grinning and defensiveness is his emotional immaturity in being able to deal with the situation.

He's trashed his room out of anger. Making him angrier won't solve this. He needs to learn other ways to deal with anger and rolls to put things right.

Just leave him to calm down. Let him work out for himself how he feels about his trashed room. Believe me he isn't enjoying it as it is and doesn't want it that way. But he needs to process that his anger made it like that and time to accept the consequences of his actions.

Punishing a child for being angry isn't right. No ones suggesting letting him get away with it - he hasn't - he's ruined his stuff and that's his consequence.

They are suggesting not escalating it further and giving him a chance to open up and find other ways to channel his anger and accept he can't always do what he wants to

[AuntBeastie]

Parents who suggest responding to a wilfully naughty child with ‘cuddles’ are the reason the adult world is full of entitled men who behave however they like with no fear of the consequences.

[Lolapusht]

All of you advocating chucking everything out and guffawing at the notion of giving him a hug (ie being the adult and trying to understand why he is so upset and find a solution that works), you do realise he’s “won”? He hasn’t tidied his room and he said to throw all his toys out so the OP has basically done what he wanted and tidied his room into the bargain. What has he learnt for next time? Why is parenting all about fighting and winning? Stop creating conflict situations. The OP said she’d run out of punishments and he wasn’t listening. Your solutions? Punish him so more and that hasn’t worked. There is some excellent advice here on alternative ways of dealing with the situation. The problem with punishments and battles is that you have to keep escalating and you will get to the stage where you have nowhere left to escalate to. At that point you’ve lost. Being empathetic to your children does not make them entitled little brats. It teaches them how to be good people. Having massive fights that go on for days and end up in throwing out toys still doesn’t have a consequence that a 7 year old is going to learn anything from.

[Starlight345]

Is this normal or very out of character for him?

My Ds does have sn’s removing stuff makes no difference, upping the reward escalates things . I tell him there will be a consequences mainly to give me time to think it through. Leave him to think it through and calm down

Consequences have to matter to them .


We tend to talk after he is calmed , done what has been different.

[Amanduh]

Lol. Hug him. Oh mumsnet 😂😂😂

[ZigZagZebras]

I have a feeling the posters saying 'cuddle him' either have very young children or have children who rarely misbehave.
He's pushing boundaries, giving him a hug at this point will teach him that if he does this again when he feels angry there's no real consequences.
I would give him 2 hours to tidy it, after that whatever isn't tidy goes in a bin bag in the corner of his room. If that bin bag hasn't been emptied and put away by the end of the week then it is given to charity. That way he has a chance to tidy it once he's calmer if he isn't able to calm down enough currently.

[Thisreallyisafarce]

blueskiesandforests

You come off it. A battle of wills is a saying - it means you are going to show someone you don't intend to back down. Which is what kids need. Sometimes. In this case, it isn't admitting defeat as a parent not to back down. It is admitting defeat to start handing out cuddles and biscuits - the child gets what they want, which is ridiculous.

[youarenotkiddingme]

I'm the parent of a very well behaved child who when he started kicking my car, ripped it's doors off it's hinges and threw my furniture around the house have him a hug and talked to him about why he was so angry.

He has autism and anxiety. Turns out his experience in school he'd started was horrific (including things like pe teachers sending him off with messages to ask for a long wait etc).

Yes, he was expected to rectify the damage and clear up. Consequence was he couldn't do day trip he wanted as I had to fix my car.
Yes we worked on better ways to deal with anger.

But by establishing what drove the behaviours I could fight for an EHCP and get him in a different school.

He left his old school with nowhere to go as he was so damaged.
He was a different child within 5 days and he's not been that child since.

It's not about hugging him and telling him his behaviour is ok. It's about recognising his anger and helping with that.

[MinaPaws]

well said @youarenotkiddingme There's a reason kids get that angry. It's only fair to listen not to immediately impose sanctions without even questioning the root cause.

[Thisreallyisafarce]

MinaPaws

Sometimes there is no root cause. They just want their own way, and they haven't learned yet that they can't always have it.

[IWannaSeeHowItEnds]

So what happens when he is a grown man and gets angry? Does he get to trash his house and expect a hug from his wife?

Children need boundaries. They need to know that mum and dad are in charge and that there are rules to be followed. He might disagree with the rules, but trashing his room is not going to make the rules go away.

I agree with bagging up his stuff and taking it away. I wouldn't bin it or give it away, but he would have to earn it back. A hug will not teach him to respect property - it will just teach him that acting up has no meaningful consequences. Next time he could wreck your room or a sibling's.

Can't believe some posters are saying the OP shouldn't have kept him in. If she said no for whatever reason, that doesn't mean she is somehow responsible for this.

[3WildOnes]

I would do a combination. I would offer a hug and a then share a cup of tea and have a discussion about why he was so angry. I’d listen to his feeling and try to understand his point of view. Hopefully now he would be feeling mire contained and therefore more amenable. Then I would explain that it’s not safe to have his room in such a mess and that it wouldn’t be fair for me to tidy so he has until x time to tidy it or I will bag it all up until he is ready to do so. I would chat to him whilst he tidied.

[OwlinaTree]

I think I'd leave the room in a mess. I wouldn't be chucking stuff away. It's not yours to chuck.

[ChanklyBore]

So what does bagging all his stuff up teach him about how to manage his anger when he is an adult? Hopefully teaching children strategies to remain calm and to deal with anger when it happens in a non destructive way is a better life plan than punishing them arbitrarily for the destruction they cause?

If he is an adult who has had good anger management modelled to him and had his anger acknowledged and understood as a child, that is surely more helpful to him as an adult - being the adult that doesn’t trash his house at all, rather than the one that trashes things and is prosecuted for it?

I do not claim to have all the answers but the question was what would your punishment be....and I answered.

And yes, my children are older than the child in question, with the eldest being a teenager. And yes, they have done similar things to the child in the OP.

[OwlinaTree]

I think the issue is the reaction. He's got a big reaction from you for trashing his room.

If you could go back in time, no reaction would be the best really. Oh what a mess you've made. That will take you ages to tidy up.

Give him time to calm down then do the cuddle, do you want to talk about it?

[BumsexAtTheBingo]

I would have told him that for every 5 minutes the mess was still sat there he would be grounded for another day.
Later on when it was tidy and he was calm I would have a hug/chat with him about what happened.

[Thisreallyisafarce]

than punishing them arbitrarily for the destruction they cause?

It isn't arbitrary if it is (even fairly) consistent. You teach the child that lashing out in anger has consequences. They don't like the consequences, so they learn to control the anger.

[Jamieson90]

My parents had me quite later on in life, so maybe it is a generational thing but if that ever happened in my house it'd be no screen time for a month.

Sure, kids get to be upset and throw tantrums when they're frustrated, I get that. Totally trashing your room that your parents worked hard for and spent their hard earned cash on is totally out of order and completely crosses the line.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Adults are emotionally mature.

7yo are not.

[SputnikBear]

Laughing my socks off at people suggesting that parents should respond to naughty behaviour with a cuddle! This is why the world is in its current state and teachers are quitting because pupil behaviour is increasingly unbearable. All you’re teaching your kid is that he can insult you and get away without even a cross word never mind a punishment. You’re creating a rod for everyone else’s backs.

[Thisreallyisafarce]

youarenotkiddingme

Of course not, which is why you don't treat a 7 year old smashing up your home the way you would an adult - if an adult behaved like that, I would call the police and throw them out. What a 7 year old needs is an age-appropriate punishment for unacceptable behaviour, so they learn it is unacceptable.

[blueskiesandforests]

Gizzy you are not unreasonable not to tidy for him. You are unreasonable to say "move all the big stuff then start with the Lego" - that's too much especially while emotions are high. You are also unreasonable to give up so easily and then think that if you leave him in his room he will suddenly be able to do a task which was too overwhelming in the first place. You are also unreasonable to have got into a battle with him over uniform and "backchat" which led to him trashing his room and you not intervening as soon as the "trashing" started - he's 7 not 17, it would have been easy to step in at the first out of place noise from his room, you didn't have to stay outside for fear of getting hurt. A hug - given he is 7 - would have had it's place much earlier, to allow him to back down before things escalated from you telling him to get changed to him "trashing" his bedroom.

Parenting is teaching children to handle their big emotions. It's not leaving things to escalate then trying to assert your will through punishment. That way through humilation the seeds of defiance and bigger battles with a child who can't handle their emotions and a teen who sees relationships as a battle for dominance are planted.