To think DD is basically being given detention for being autistic?

[102910h]

Im a new user, I signed up because I didn't know who to ask.

DD is 12 and year 8. She has high functioning ASD but is in mainstream.

As part of her ASD she has organisational issues, struggles to record homework and often forgets books. I and her dad try to help her as much as we can with this but she still gets detentions every week.

She's been crying a lot lately because she doesn't want to be lumped in with the 'naughty kids' and she feels that she is being if that makes sense.

I contacted the SENCO and they said they can try to help with organisation but so far the strategies they've tried haven't worked out (planner, she loses it, forgets to write in it etc)

AIBU to think that she is basically being given detention because she has autism? Should the school be doing more to help?

I just don't get the obsession with writing by hand. Why does the teacher write it by hand to be copied by every pupil using a pen and paper. DS2 had photocopies glued into a textbook. Why not use PowerPoint? Download it. Screenshot. Email. We have the technology - use it. They do at FE, HE and in the workplace. How is pen and paper equipping DC for the real world?

If it's harder, then accept that.

It isn't about it being harder. It's about a child who is unable to do something. You cannot see this disability in the same way as you can see a wheelchair but it is just as significant as a physical disability.

You can't make a child suddenly become able to organise themselves by punishing them if their brain structures mean that they are incapable of doing it. That is the same as punishing a blind child for not being able use a handwritten timetable to get them to the right lessons on time.

Punishment is a behaviour management strategy. If the root of the problem is a disability, a sanction will be at best ineffective.

Objectively, children with extra needs still should get what others do. If it's harder, then accept that.

Why should they not receive help to access what others do, E4e?

@Moonshine86 you spent it right the first time: liaise

Oh god I don't know why I did that. Sorry spelling police. I'll get my coat!

@KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that handwriting things actually helps you to remember them far better. Reading off a screen is very passive by comparison.

E4e2756611

I truely hope you aren't involved in education on any way.

@BlankTimes

As you say, such a service should of course be adjusted for the needs of the individual child. It could be included if it works for that child. That's all I'm saying.

As for the payment aspect I'm not saying that morally this should be a service that parents have to pay for. All I said was that in the school I worked in previously - one with abysmal/non-existent SEN provision - it was the case. Of course ideally it should be provided/paid for by the local authority.

You seem determined to twist my professional experience to suit you. That's a shame.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that handwriting things actually helps you to remember them far better. Reading off a screen is very passive by comparison

I'd put good money on this evidence being based on neurotypical people, not neurodiverse people which handwriting difficulties!!!

As someone in their late 50s who struggles with organisation and memory, and has only recently been diagnosed with dyspraxia, callous replies such as E4e's have brought me close to tears. My work have put in place so many ways of helping me now they know (even going against their own policies by doing so, such as giving me my own desk in a world of hotdesking), and my life would have been so much easier had the help been given earlier. Ironically, school was easier to a certain level as I was a boarder and we all did prep in our classrooms at the same times and with all our books to hand. I can't help feeling that I would have done so much better in my MA and postgraduate studies had I been helped to learn how to organise and remember rather than sink or swim.

It's not a case of being lazy or refusing to conform but simply that my brain doesn't work in the same way. I strongly believe that the more we find out about the brain, the less typical "neurotypical" will become.

I truely hope you aren't involved in education on any way.

Me too but I've come across several school staff who think exactly like this.

I think we should be grateful to E4e2756611 for providing us with an opportunity to help explain these concepts on a public forum. There are plenty of others who need to learn that equality isn't about treating everybody the same.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that handwriting things actually helps you to remember them far better

Handwriting can be very painful and a very slow process for anyone with hypermobile joints, dyspraxia, dyslexia, EDS etc. Some of those conditions are often co-morbid with autism.

Why should a child have to struggle to handwrite and/or be in pain to do so?

What reasonable adjustments should be made when an activity like writing down their homework causes pain or takes them 10 times longer than their peers so draws attention to their disability?

There are plenty of others who need to learn that equality isn't about treating everybody the same

Agreed

Good point BlankTimes

Often the best solution all round would be to set the homework on Google Classroom or similar as well as verbally in class so that all of the children in the class can access it in the way that suits them best and nobody needs any individual adjustments.

It is recognised that adjustments made for children with ASD can often benefit the whole class.

However, some children will still struggle because using Google Classroom would only remove one barrier. Children with ASD have multiple barriers to their learning and some will be able to learn better if they are excused homework altogether or are permitted to drop certain subjects/activities.

Blank Times Are you actually sure you know what you are talking about? You'll see I've used the word 'equity' in my posts, because that's what I meant. You just "agreed" that 'equality isn't about treating people the same'. Errrrm, by definition it is. That's what your image is meant to be illustrating. Equality isn't always what we're after. Equity is; even if that meant extra support to achieve the same outcomes, (which I haven't said I disagree with) combined with extra effort to reach the same level (which is apparently outrageous of me to suggest!)

You clearly understand the message of the image and the issue of equity vs. equality less well than me. But I should just trust you know best about these things. Because parents never make mistakes or are ill educated, uniformed or biased.

Angelil - so universities and workplaces should go back to pen and paper then?

Even if you bracket the disability (which you really shouldn't as it is unlawful) you do realise that policies can change overnight? So theoretically it would be possible for a school to change its policies from skills that a child excels at to things that the child struggles with. My son struggles to write but does a mean Excel spreadsheet. How would this impact a child with a skill that is no longer valued? What is significant - the skills per se, their usefulness in later life or conformity?

Does it make sense to judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree?

You just "agreed" that 'equality isn't about treating people the same'. Errrrm, by definition it is.

Equality of access to the curriculum is what is required. That means that adjustments must be made.

The three people in the picture have the same view of the game so they have equality of access because they have not all been treated the same.

Gold

Oh so you don't understand it either.

Ffs. It clearly shows that all having the same, being fair or 'equal' doesn't always amount to the same outcome. Being equitable means providing something different from or additional to the norm, to compensate for weaknesses.

@SoupMode - has your DD been diagnosed? That really helped us. I told him that it was very normal for ASD people to need a system. I just bought the crate and the ziplocks and sorted stuff for him, and said, very casually, this makes mornings easier.

There was resistance with checking the timetable and packing the bag the night before. I often did it for him at first. Which is fine for ASD children. they do need more help. But eventually I asked him to time it. He worked out it took about 5 mins to avoid stress all day next day at school, and to avoid me reminding and nagging all evening. It was a good exchange rate.

Being equitable means providing something different from or additional to the norm, to compensate for weaknesses.

...the equality describes the access they have to the curriculum. It's not difficult.

I’ve found that on the whole other children couldn’t care less about adjustments that are made for their classmates.

Eating & drinking in class is strictly not allowed. But at ds’s last school no one cared that the diabetic boy was allowed to eat at the “wrong” times.

None of ds’s current classmates give a fig that his homework is written into his planner for him or that he is alllwed to leave the classroom 5 mins before the end of lessons & Pre-order his lunch to eat in a separate room.

Dh is a teacher (a good one). He teaches FE & degree level. He still provides things in accessible formats to suit the needs of his students from handouts in different colour papers to allowing students to record lectures. Just recently he was dsgjosed with a condition that gave him a unique insight into the problems that some face eg he now is unable to filter background noise or enter certain environments. Should his work (he’s off sick but hoping to return soon) not make adjustments for him?

I must have imagined the Equality Act 2010.

Some people are so moronic and too close minded to consider a view that isn't fully aligned to their their own.

I think we need an emoji for a pot and a kettle.

There is a relationship between equality and equity.

This means that people have to be treated differently (unequally) to enable equal access.

Hence 'support' for some DC (maybe not receiving detention for not complying with homework whole school policies) does not disadvantage other pupils. Treating all pupils the same on the other hand is applying superficial rules of equality but not 'levelling the playing field' and so fails the test of equity.