To think DD is basically being given detention for being autistic?

[102910h]

Im a new user, I signed up because I didn't know who to ask.

DD is 12 and year 8. She has high functioning ASD but is in mainstream.

As part of her ASD she has organisational issues, struggles to record homework and often forgets books. I and her dad try to help her as much as we can with this but she still gets detentions every week.

She's been crying a lot lately because she doesn't want to be lumped in with the 'naughty kids' and she feels that she is being if that makes sense.

I contacted the SENCO and they said they can try to help with organisation but so far the strategies they've tried haven't worked out (planner, she loses it, forgets to write in it etc)

AIBU to think that she is basically being given detention because she has autism? Should the school be doing more to help?

Support is available.

Really? Do you know anything about the SEN system in the UK, E45e? There are thousands of parents of children with SEN who could tell you different.

However, I'm outraged that some parents don't see that making excuses is doing those children a disservice

How as a parent am I supposed to know DS has homework and therefore able to suppprt him at home if school don't suppprt him in making sure it's written down in a legable form? Just how? It's not an excuse it's not possible.

So why should he attend detention for not doing homework he didn't know he had because guess what? The teacher forgot to write it down.

Maybe the teacher should be out in detention for forgetting?

Homework is enriching.

That's questionable in any event - there are plenty of studies that suggest otherwise. Finland, with very little homework, does much better than the UK in educational terms.

But, in any event, for many children with autism, they simply cannot cope with the concept of doing homework at home. For them, school is school and home is home, and if either of them intrude on each other it is unbelievably stressful. How is it enriching to such children for their parents to have nightly battles about homework to the point of meltdowns? Yes, in the longer term it may benefit them to learn how to cope, but why would your approach from Day 1 be to punish them for being unable to do so?

That's nice E but my child isn't being supported because there is no support or money. A teacher rang last week saying they just can't teach him because he's not organised enough and turns up late to all lessons, he has trouble with the concept of time. So they're not going to be doing much for him because the rest of the class are well behaved and they need they're attention more. Yes fabulous support there, marvellous 🙄

The least they can expect is a united front with parents, so a child doesn't make excuses. If something is hard, it takes more work

Being disabled is not an excuse.

Being unable to do a task because of your disability is not an excuse.

The education is being provided and the opportunities for success are there. Support is available. Opting out is unacceptable behaviour.

Support just being available isn't enough. The support has to be tailored to the specific needs of the child. If the support doesn't meet the child's needs it won't help them. It would be like providing a ramp to a classroom but leaving the door too narrow for the child's wheelchair to fit through.

Children with ASD usually have impaired executive function which means they are literally incapable of organising and planning for themselves. That constitutes a barrier to their learning.

With carefully targeted and effectively implemented support, that barrier and others can be removed. Some of the support could be about helping the child learn strategies for organising themselves and some would be stepping in and doing the bits they can't manage at all. That would remove the barriers to their learning and place them on an equal footing with their NT peers.

GreenTulips

The teacher didn't forget anything. They planned it according to the curriculum and the children's prior learning. They provided it. They shouldn't have to write it down thirty times to ensure all children have it in writing. What a waste of a masters level qualified professional.

Haha yes detention for adults at work is a sensible comment.

Maybe ask for help, if you're so blind to the situation. It's school. There will be homework. Saying you 'didn't know' there was any is pathetic.

E with the greatest respect, do you have an ASD child yourself?

E4e, no-one has said that the reasonable adjustment here is for the teacher to write down the homework. Can you really not think of any other way of dealing with this besides punishing the child?

Homework is enriching

Homework is only enriching when the child is capable of learning at the time they are doing it.

If they are experiencing high levels of stress related to fear of failing and being punished, they will not be learning effectively.

If they are exhausted from trying to fit in socially, managing sensory overload and making superhuman efforts to manage the basic organisation that other children take in their stride, they won't learn anything.

If they can't do the homework because they don't have the resources, don't understand the task or don't know what it is, they can't benefit from it.

They won't be able to learn in a maths lesson if they spend it panicking about the punishment they will get from the English teacher in the next lesson for not doing homework they couldn't do.

Each child is different. For some children it is better to reduce the demand on them so that they can learn effectively from the what they are expected to do. For others it's about putting support in place so they can stop worrying about organising themselves and concentrate on the curriculum.

For others it's about giving them breaks instead attending some subjects so they aren't too exhausted to learn in others.

Executive function is a complicated concept which I understand you may not have grasped. Maybe it would help you to Google it so you have a better understanding of children with ASD and why accommodations are necessary.

E the teacher planned it, yes, but did they plan into the lesson enough time for ALL children to write it down? Did they think ahead and print out the instructions so ALL the children could have a legible copy? Did they allow the children time to glue the sheet into their book, or put the sheet into their homework folder?

Those things are just as important as planning the homework in the first place. I'm a teacher, it's hard work, things get forgotten. But the main part of our job is dealing with children, who all have things they find difficult and it's our job to support them to get better at those things. If the thing this child finds most difficult at the moment is organisation then ensuring she has a legible copy of the instructions for her homework is the thing she needs most support with. That's something the teacher should reasonably provide, for the children who need it, not for all the children. Most pupils in y8 are capable of organising their homework, writing it in their planner and remembering to do it, some are not. So we write it down for the few who can't manage it, not as an excuse but because that's a reasonable thing for us to do, it helps the pupil know what they have to do and helps the parents support their learning at home.

Just setting detention for a child does not help. OP's DD is NOT being naughty, she's just struggling to get organised, so it's reasonable to ask school to help her with organisational skills.

The post talking about the system with ziplock bags in a crate in the kitchen sounds very, very similar to the system we recommend to families at school. Most children who find organisation a struggle do find it helpful once they are in the routine of doing it.

You may also not have noticed, E4e, that not all schools set homework every day. And if the child doesn't know what the homework is because they haven't been supported to develop strategies to ensure that they do, it hardly helps to say "It's school, there will be homework", does it?

E45e, has it occurred to you that not all children with autism will have exactly the same difficulties at the same level as your brother did?

There is obtuse and then there is E I think.

Volant Actually, a number of people have said the teacher, or support staff, should write it in the planner. One particularly eloquent poster thought this would make it 'legable'.

E4e

A little information for you, because it's obvious you haven't a clue how autism impacts a child's abilities.

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asd.aspx

Precisely, E45e - people suggested that teachers or support staff should write the homework in the planner. You chose to interpret that as meaning that a teacher with Masters level qualifications would have to write it down 30 times. Not quite the same thing, is it?

Sorry E but I'm offended by what you type and I'm really not that easily offended. There's a saying, if you've met one person with autism then you've met one person with autism. I'm glad your brother did well, my sister is autistic and has never left home because she couldn't cope. Do you see where I'm going with this? If not then please leave it to us parents who live it every single day of our lives and trust us that we know what we're talking about.

Some schools (not all) do not provide necessary support or make reasonable adjustment. They are obsessed with conformity for its own sake and use punishment to try and achieve this. They hide behind policy whilst behaving unlawfully. There must be consequences for DC that don't conform to arbitrary policies but there is no consequence for schools behaving unlawfully. Ironic.

My son's EHCP had too much detail so teachers (LSAs weren't even given a copy) didn't read it because they were too busy and so didn't even do cost neutral stuff so I had to have meetings with the SENCO unnecessarily but then she wouldn't pass on practical information to his LSAs (he had to have 4 because of the 'danger' of dependence). Then LSAs would arrive to the class late or leave early (because they had to support others) so he wouldn't get materials necessary or record homework. But it was never their responsibility - he had to learn.

My son is 2e (he is 12 but in GCSE classes for 10 subjects) and 'conforms' brilliantly in internet school (most NT DC would 'struggle' with the academic content) and even does homework, usually achieving an A grade. He uses his iPad to have alarms for each live lesson. He is always the first to log into the class - he told me yesterday that he had to log in to English first because his teacher can't deal with the weirdness if he doesn't. In brick school he was going to be streamed into bottom sets because 'pupils in top sets don't need support' and I was told that it is more important for him to learn to fit in and conform than to achieve academically in line with his ability.

I am so glad that he is happy and self-confident but I know how hard it is to get an EHCP let alone personal budget and I can't work so I feel like I have let down other parents with SEN or ASD kids who have to send them to an increasingly hostile m/s.

Too may others use a label for an easier life

Or have a disability that totally precludes them from completing certain tasks to the standard of their peers, repeatedly and within a reasonable timeframe.

Labels are for suitcases, anyone can have one.
Medical diagnoses for SN/SEN are carried out by professionals, often by a team of professionals, if a child does not meet the diagnostic criteria, they are not given a diagnosis.

@102910h
The SN boards on Mumsnet are very good, you get the best advice without the prejudice, disablism and the goadiness expressed by some of the posters here in AIBU

Too may others use a label for an easier life instead of actually striving for the equity they say they want.

My DD1 was excused homework in Y7/8/9. She was more able to manage it from Y10 but was never sanctioned for not completing it.

She worked her socks off through that time and sixth form, facing and overcoming huge barriers to her learning in addition to the usual stressors and hurdles face by her NT peers. She is now studying a challenging and sought after science-based degree at a good university.

She needed certain adjustments in order to have the opportunity to succeed. Those accommodations made it possible for her to learn and achieve.

A small number of other parents, like you, were jealous and critical because she was 'let off' homework, RE and PE lessons, etc, but that was their problem, not hers, ours or the school's.

W be as offended and as entitled as you like. You wanted to know if I was on your position and asked if I had a child with ASD
I shared my anecdotal experience to explain where I am coming from. That's exactly what you're doing by talking about your child. And you talk about other parents alongside you, saying "we" when no two can be the same
I'm not saying your opinions and experiences aren't valid, but they are very subjective. Objectively, children with extra needs still should get what others do. If it's harder, then accept that.

I feel your pain. My son is a year older with diagnosed behavioural issues, processing problems and attention issues. He is being asssessed for ASD. He is constantly in detention sometimes 3 or 4 times in a day. He forgets the first detention so he then gets a longer detention, which he forgets and ends up with an hour after school. I have spoken to the school but they say they won’t stop the detentions even though in my view they don’t seem to be working! Then they wonder why he refuses to go to school!

Objectively, children with extra needs still should get what others do. If it's harder, then accept that

Does that include physical disabilities, too, E4e2756611