To think DD is basically being given detention for being autistic?

[102910h]

Im a new user, I signed up because I didn't know who to ask.

DD is 12 and year 8. She has high functioning ASD but is in mainstream.

As part of her ASD she has organisational issues, struggles to record homework and often forgets books. I and her dad try to help her as much as we can with this but she still gets detentions every week.

She's been crying a lot lately because she doesn't want to be lumped in with the 'naughty kids' and she feels that she is being if that makes sense.

I contacted the SENCO and they said they can try to help with organisation but so far the strategies they've tried haven't worked out (planner, she loses it, forgets to write in it etc)

AIBU to think that she is basically being given detention because she has autism? Should the school be doing more to help?

DD1 had this problem (dyspraxia/short-term memory issues). She used to ring up her friends practically every night to ask. But she gradually got better.

In my experience, balance is important. On the one hand, you don't want them to get too anxious and upset, but on the other, you do want to help them develop and practise the appropriate skills or work-arounds so they can function in an academic or work environment.

Some of this can be down to developmental delay, as well. It might help to suggest to her that while she is struggling now, her abilities will mature and she will become more proficient at organisation as she matures. The brain goes through big changes at ages 12-13, including in areas that affect executive processing, I believe.

She's not 'being punished for having autism'. If any child doesn't complete homework (or class work) or have the right equipment for a lesson, there's a consequence for that child - they miss something valuable. Teachers have got to expect the same for all.

Why, @E4e2756611? Since when were teachers or schools exempt from the duty to make reasonable adjustments for disability?

Why shouldn't a child with ASD have to conform?

Why do you confine this to children with ASD? Try that sentence with other disabilities - "Why shouldn't a child with a mobility difficulty be expected to conform by turning up to every lesson on time even if they are in rooms several floors apart from each other?" "Why shouldn't a child with a visual impairment be expected to conform by following instructions on the whiteboard even if they can't see them?" "Why shouldn't a child with massive noise sensitivity be expected to conform by using the noisy dining room with everyone else?"

@Volant that is the best news I have heard all week!

6 year old ds was punished because he was autistic.

She's not 'being punished for having autism'. If any child doesn't complete homework (or class work) or have the right equipment for a lesson, there's a consequence for that child - they miss something valuable

Yes they lose their self esteem

Do you really think this way? Kids with difficulties know they aren't the same, they feel bad for not getting the basics, they don't do it on purpose.

Do you get punished at work for forgetting your pen, or not replying to an email? So they insist you can't have a coffee at 10am?

E4e as a learning disabilities support worker I think when i have heard some awful comments that can't be beat then along comes another one .Your post has made me so cross on the behalf of of anyone who has ASD .Why should they conform I absolutely agree with whirly The school should have provision in place to feel with ASD if not then it is discrimination .The trouble is if the teachers do not have any form of training they just don't know how to deal with it but this doesn't make it acceptable at all .

have got to expect the same for all
This is exactly the point where organisations or people don't understand disability as a legal concept. Discrimination happens every time they insist on the same rigid interpretation of rules and that 'they need to meet the needs of all children'. They are too worried to not give 'an unfair advantage' for disabled people, so in fact they are enforcing discrimination.

People with disabilities are at a disadvantage due to disability, reasonable adjustments redress this disadvantage, they don't give an 'unfair' advantage over non disabled people.

Pinterest has good work system examples. She will need lots.of visual structure

E4e2756611
Why shouldn't a child with ASD have to conform? If their leaning was being ignored or they weren't being included, I could see the problem, but theyre overwhelming provided with opportunities

Where? Where are all these opportunities? Do tell.

You need to read all the replies on here and especially the ones to manycrisps, as you appear to have the same level of understanding of autism as they do, i.e. zero.

Some people on this thread obviously think autism and some of the difficulties that go along with it are clearly optional, and the child can simply overcome them to conform with everyone else.

Autism is a disability. Some people with autism will never be able to do the things required to help them conform. Some people with autism will never be able to live independently. They will never be organised enough to manage their homework independently. Many of these children are in mainstream schools because inclusion is a good thing (when done properly).

Do school have any sort of homework club at lunchtime? Lots of our children who are disorganised for one reason or another (some have various special needs, others have chaotic home lives, etc) find that they can manage to get into the routine of popping into homework club (run by TAs in my school but other schools cover it with teachers or lunchtime supervisors) at lunchtime to get it done at school. Others pop in to homework club to make sure they've got the correct instructions for their homework, as whoever is on duty can call/email the teachers to check if they don't understand what the pupil has written.

At the very least the teachers should be making sure your DD has her homework written down in her planner. In every class I teach (8 classes) I have at least 2 who need me to write down their homework for them, so I make sure they sit near the front so I can get to them and write down their homework when it's set. That's the bare minimum that ANY disorganised child needs help with, regardless of the reasons behind the disorganisation. Then children with a diagnosis which affects their organisation should probably get additional adjustments, such as a key worker who might spend 5 mins a day checking on organisation, or a locker to keep books in so they are always in school rather than being forgotten at home, or someone working with the child to develop an organisational system like colour coded subject folders in their bag or a separate homework folder which would be the only thing to go home. There are many ways school could work with your DD that they don't seem to be doing. Start fighting for her.

I never punish a disorganised child for not having their homework. I do give them a "chance to catch up" at lunchtime, or I contact their key person (usually a TA or sometimes their form tutor) to let them know they need extra help in this area.

Oh do bog off E4e opportunities and support are out there? Where?
Mine can't get seen in CAMHS, still battling the get an EHCP, school is woefully underfunded. So tell me where is the fucking support?

I could apologise for swearing but I won't. I'm angry, I'm tired, I'm stressed. So p,ease enlighten me where we can get support because my body can't run on adrenaline forever...

As a parent I completely agree with this:
Yes. You have understood my point correctly. Just because some people are on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean they shouldn't conform. Being different from others is unavoidable for all of us. But children with ASD have a right to an education. I'm sure you don't disagree. Yet apparently you think they shouldn't have to try, overcome obstacles and do their bit. The education is being provided and the opportunities for success are there. Support is available. Opting out is unacceptable behaviour. If a child with social or learning difficulties is allowed not to conform, damaging behaviour is enabled. A teacher sets tasks for a good reason.

However, children with SEN and disabilities need the support, the adjustments that are effective at allowing them to develop those skills and benefit from those opportunities. To be effective, the support need to be quite tailored and multilayer. It should not stop short of actually enabling the children to access those opportunities.

Keeping SEN children on half life support does not enable them to develop and function. It starves them of their potential by thousand cuts.

Basically when they cut SEN support beyond certain level, it fails the children and does no good. To enable equality and to meet the SEN you need to go all the way.

It sounds so hard OP. Just wanted to send a virtual hug. Keep fighting for something that works. Keep supporting her.

Just because some people are on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean they shouldn't conform. And school is one of the places they learn how to do this, with support and understanding, not continual punishment.

Or did you spring into the world fully formed? Cos most of us grow up, make mistakes, are offered and accept help before we become mature, functioning beings!

E4e2756611 just as some children will never learn to walk some will never learn to conform.

E4e2756611, do you expect children with ASD to be able to conform from the day they turn up in school? Or should they be taught how to do so? And if the nature of their disabiity is such that that takes a long time, what do you think should happen in the meantime? Should they be punished, or should some adjustments be made for them?

Great eply from @Volant

She is being punished for her autism, yes. Organisational skills are incredibly hard for autistic children.
DS2 has HFA. No amount of reminders will help him remember anything. That part of his brain doesn;t retain as other people's do. And punishments definitely won't help him think "won;t do that again.' because, again, that's not how his brain works. He'll just think: 'They hate me,' feel scared, demoralised and the resulting anxiety will make him even more forgetful.

We found setting up a system for him really helped. IN case it helps your DD, @102910h here it is:

Get school to provide you with a copy of her weekly timetable, homework timetable and email addresses for all her teachers and form tutor.

Get a big plastic crate and put it in the kitchen. All school work, books, and textbooks go in it.

Buy a stack of ziplock A4 file bags. Label one for each subject. Put textbooks, exercise books and loose sheets of paper into them. This is the single most useful thing you can do, as she only has to hunt in one place for one ziplock bag for any given subject.

If a subject needs specific kit eg coloured pencils for geography, protractors etc for maths, add those to the ziploc bag. Then if she loses her main pencil case, she still has what she needs for those lessons.

If it helps, add a pen, pencil and small ruler to each ziplock bag.

Print out 3 copies of her timetable and highlight all the lessons where homework is supposed to be set. Stick one in the kitchen, one in her bedroom and one, folded, in her inside blazer pocket.

When DD comes home from school, help her empty her school bag every evening.

Check her homework diary with her immediately. Usually DS would have forgotten to use his homework diary. But if you ask the day it was set he might remember, or could email a few friends or the teacher and ask for a copy of it. Get her to write what it was into the diary anyway, so she has a full record in a single place, of what she should have completed throughout the term.

Help her sort out what she needs for each piece of home work. When she's finished the homework, check that she puts everything from the subject back into the ziplock bag and the bag back in the crate.

Every night, get her to check the timetable and pack her bag. Check her bag with her. If there are extras e.g. gym kit, swimming kit, music bag and instrument etc, help her get those packed and when all is done, put the lot by the front door.

This all sounds a bit fussy, but it's no fussier than having to remember to put individual things into the bag. When we started this system, (in Yr 8) it immedieately made life easier for us all. We could see at a glance what DS needed with him on a given day.

The only downside is he never used his locker. He couldn't, because he had to lug everything with him. If it was in the locker, he'd forget it. It all came home every night. But he never lost anything from then on. Never got another detention. Rarely got swamped by overdue homework. And by 5th form, when it really matters, he was slinging stuff into his bag within seconds, he was so used to the system.

Sorry for so many typos.

OP I just remembered, a good place to look for organisational tips, especially for teens/school, is books and websites for ADHD. I found (eventually) that they had a lot more useful stuff than the dyspraxia websites with that regard.

Perhaps she could have a folder specifically for homework if it's a sheet so it doesn't get lost in her bag and forgotten and maybe explain to her teachers how she struggles with this and they could write down homework on a slip of paper so she doesn't have to worry about recording it. Then remind her every night to check the folder for homework

Minapaws What a fabulous system! I had elements of that for DD1, but not as good as that. And she, too, ended up carrying everything around and not using her locker, for the same reason, but that worked for her too.

She's 27 now, and doing really well organisationally. One of the things she did was train herself to do things when she thought of them, rather than procrastinate. As a result she is very efficient and gets loads done. I wish I had learned to do this.

A teacher sets tasks for a good reason. ASD children are equally entitled to benefit from undertaking them. If they don't join in, or CONFORM, they miss out. It's simple. If the child was not allowed in the lesson or written off and not expected to achieve, and therefore missing out, parents would have every right to be outraged.

Again, try that with different wording. Suppose, for instance, the task set is to go out and gather samples of particular plants, and that involves going into a place that is only accessible to children with good mobility. And suppose there are a number of children in the class with mobility problems. Should the teacher just expect them to conform, or should she make some adjustments so that those children can learn in a different way?

In OP's case, the issue is that her child is expected to learn by being as organised as her peers without being given support for that purpose. Should the school just say "she can't opt out, she has to conform, and we will punish her if she doesn't" - or should it help her to find strategies to deal with the problem?

WhirlyGig I can tell you're angry by the way you're reacting, but the issues you are experiencing don't mean I can't have an opinion on those parents that seem to take the easy option for their children, making excuses along the way. The opportunities I refer to are the chances to gain skills and knowledge from qualified teachers. Saying only core subject homework should be done is depriving the child of the chance to engage with something a subject specialist things is important and might just ignite a sense of enthusiasm for the child. Homework is enriching. Thinking it doesn't need to be done is ignorant. The support given by teachers, who give instructions and differentiated tasks in the way that they know various children need to be on a level playing field, is worth so much. I don't think fighting judgements on discipline is appropriate. Adjustments are made all day every day. Teachers make thousands of choices and adapt for the children in front of them. The least they can expect is a united front with parents, so a child doesn't make excuses. If something is hard, it takes more work. If you want teachers to spend more time and effort to make sure toy child is treated fairly, then you have to give the same.

Minapaws really useful tips there.

Our problem is DD won't accept help at the moment. She is very demand avoidant when stressed and anxious. I think the school are finding this too. She is her own worst enemy at times