DD used the phrase "KYS" and has been suspended for 3 days?!

[olayjer]

DD is 13 and said sent the phrase "KYS" to a boy in her year after he sent her an email saying "type X into the school internet" (the X is the name of a porn star that wouldn't seem like a porn star name if you see what I mean). She replied "KYS" back on the same email. The school have said the boy will be punished for the initial email but he clearly hasn't been punished as much as DD has. 3 days exclusion!?

Reply was to Butchy at 09.42!

And then if the harasser did go and do some desperate deed to themselves, well, it would be all the girl's fault because they told them to KYS
Honestly, no great loss in that case, Butchy. Darwin's law. Boys shouldn't give it if they can't take it.

I've just done safeguarding training on sexual harassment/ abuse.

The stats were upsetting with how much goes on in school.

What was even more enlightening was on average girls were 2-5 times on the receiving end more than boys depending on what area of sexual harassment it was.

Re not knowing what the boy’s punishment: OP has said that the boy was not excluded, and that exclusion is the most serious sanction there is. So while we don’t know what his punishment was, we know it was considerably less severe than her DD’s.

He was not the victim here. I agree.

He's sure good at acting like one, though. Probably her suspension exceeded even his wildest dreams, tbf.

I do hope the school has arranged counselling for the delicate flower.

Gasp at Kay... etc
Really, we can do better to protect teens.

They shouldn’t tell each other to KYS and since the internet seems to plumb the depths of language they need this guidance.

Overall protecting girls from harassment and references to suicide for all of them

This is the internet, where people tell other people to "go diaf" (die in a fire,) go play in traffic, go kill yourself (without the abbreviation), go fuck yourself, etc. These are expressions of disgust and anger, in response to nasty, gross behaviour.
And as such, totally fine.

I honestly cannot believe what I've just read there. You think these things are totally fine?

It's the fact that they are commonplace, that kids think it's fine to say them that is causing the problems that we see.

What an absolutely toxic world our children are growing up in.

No wonder the school have acted in the way that they did is everyone thinks it's ok to say these things.

MarshaBradyo why do you think a 13 yo girl should be punished for not knowing the most acceptable way to respond to a boy sexually harassing her when she didn’t expect it?

Why do you think that in that moment of hurt, humiliation, distress she should have been able to deal in a calm, dispassionate way with the situation and have the boy’s feelings uppermost in her mind, and by not doing so she was culpable?

hurt, humiliation and distress which this boy intended* to cause her

No wonder the school have acted in the way that they did is everyone thinks it's ok to say these things.

I absolutely think it's fine to tell someone who sexually harasses you or tries to incite you to look at pornographic material to KYS/GFY/DD. That's how I would respond as an adult.

My (hypothetical) daughter would not be getting punished for that. I would however impress on her the importance of not using such phrases flippantly.

If the school insisted on a 3 day suspension for such an "offence" in these circumstances, I would let them know I was taking her to Alton Towers.

The school should be clearer in what is unacceptable - parents too.

Mental health week is a brilliant time to address it. We’re so slow as adults to protect teens and help because of all the reasons below.

So for a few things - n, r and KYS it’s off limits

And the harassment - as I keep saying because it’s not one or the other

I agree butchy

@BrownPaperTeddy I think this is the internet. I've been on it since I was 13 on dial up, and this is what it has always been. The harsh, wild west. Sometimes I'm shocked as to how ignorant parents still are, as to what goes on.
Yes, people will say mean, terrible things sometimes. No, you can't always stop them. Yes, the answer is to block them, ignore them, or shut down your social media (which isn't actually necessary.)
Yes, it is an issue when such bullying is coming from people at your child's school. Because then it's internet bullying rooted in real life, and can be punished by the school. Otherwise, no, you can't stop a random person in America from telling your child to go kill themselves.
People need to wake up and realise that the internet is not a happy rainbow land.

My (hypothetical) daughter would not be getting punished for that. I would however impress on her the importance of not using such phrases flippantly.
Absolutely. And using it to someone who tries to get you to look at porn is not flippant, imo. It's calculated, and also - entirely reasonable. If an adult man acquaintance tried to get me to look at porn, I would tell him to go fall in a wood chipper, please and thank you. If he then went and threw himself in a wood chipper, I would view him as someone clearly too stupid to live anyway.

If the school insisted on a 3 day suspension for such an "offence" in these circumstances, I would let them know I was taking her to Alton Towers.

Excellent hypothetical response, Butchy!

has said that the boy was not excluded,

I'm not sure that she really does know that though. IME a school wouldn't discuss another child's punishment with anyone else and if they were asked the response would be along the lines of " I can't discuss him with you but he is being dealt with" or such like.

I find it hard to believe that a HoY has told another parent, categorically, that achild has not received a certain punishment.

Regardless, the OP should speak to the school about what happened, how it was able to happen and what they will do to stop it happening again. She should also raise their attitude towards sexual harassment and what their levels of sanctions are in respect of it. That should clarify for her what his punishment was likely to have been. If there is a wild difference between that and her DDs punishment then she could discuss this with the school.

For now her main priority is addressing why her DD thinks that it is ok to say KYS. When else does she say it? And where has she learnt it from? Is she being exposed to that, and worse, on line for example? No idea about fortnite thank goodness. My children are adults now but what else goes on on there? Is it likely that her DD is seeing pornographic images on there? Hearing abusive language on there? Being groomed on there?

Is this something that OP is exposing her daughter to by allowing her to play this game?

You’d know if someone was suspended though as they wouldn’t be at school. Even on the days the dd wasn’t at school to see, she may have friends at school who will have noticed him being there in the days dd wasn’t. I think if the op says he hasn’t been excluded we have to assume she’s correct.

After thinking about this a bit more my opinion has changed slightly.

Presumably if someone is that on the edge, anything that upsets someone could be the trigger. Must we refrain from saying anything negative to anyone, ever, even if they are bullying or harassing us, just in case they might be on the verge of killing themselves?

That's the thing. If this boy had killed himself because of the girl's response to sexual harassment, he may have took his own life if she had told him to fuck off, or replied in any harsh manner. So if his mental health is that poor anything the OP replied with could have affected him deeply.

Lets keep things in perspective a little.

I would not be impressed if I found my teens typing KYS to anyone, but a 'fuck off you twat' could have also been the straw that broke the camel's back if this boy was in a very bad place.

For some teenaged girls a boy tricking them into viewing porn could also have devastating effects.

What about OP's daughter's mental health? Girls are having to put up with this shit far too frequently and it affects them hugely. Why are some people only concentrating on what her actions could have done to him?

I am not comfortable with the insinuation that OP's DD could have been responsible for a suicide because of the way she reacted to a boy trying to get her to view porn.

Basically, it boils down to this

You’re not allowed a kneejerk reaction, even though you are the aggressed and he’s the aggressor. You carry the responsibility for managing the situation correctly, however much in shock and upset you might be.

Boy sexually harasses girl. Girl responds with KYS and that could have lead to a suicide, she should have thought more about her actions and she deserves to miss out on education for her 'vile' reaction to someone who harassed her. Boy gets less punishment and very little thought is given to how this could have affected the girl.

You’d know if someone was suspended though as they wouldn’t be at school

Given that this happened yesterday, Friday, no one has had the opportunity to see if he is or isn't in school.

Basically the OP has no idea what his punishment is.

I'm getting the sense though that even if he were also excluded for 3 days that some PP on here would argue that the DD does not deserve the same level of punishment. That she should be treated more leniently.

Given that this happened yesterday, Friday

Ah yeah fair enough.

Well, maybe he will be excluded then. Which would be great. Hope he gets a week.

I am not comfortable with the insinuation that OP's DD could have been responsible for a suicide because of the way she reacted to a boy trying to get her to view porn
I'm not seeing it like that though.

I'm seeing it more as the DD thought that KYS is an ok thing to say. And she needs to learn that it isn't ok to say it and that it could have wider implications.

What the boy did should be dealt with separately to what the girl said.

Imagine that, BrownPaperTeddy, that we might treat the victim of sexual harassment more “leniently” than her aggressor!

We could even aspire to be a culture that doesn’t punish rape victims for being raped, as they do in some parts of the world!

I'm getting the sense though that even if he were also excluded for 3 days that some PP on here would argue that the DD does not deserve the same level of punishment. That she should be treated more leniently.

That's exactly what I'd be saying. . In OP's place, I wouldn't want my kid punished at all for that response in the circumstances described.

But neither would I want him suspended for 3 days if this is a first offence. Of course, it would be his own fault if that happened - OP's daughter dealt with his behaviour herself, he was the one who brought it to the attention of others.

Good to see you’ve had second thoughts, U2.

Imagine that, BrownPaperTeddy, that we might treat the victim of sexual harassment more “leniently” than her aggressor!

And you are twisting the situation.

No a victim should not be punished, unless the victim also commits an offence.

If someone burgles my house I am a victim. I shouldn't be punished.

If someone burgles my house and I kill them I may well then be punished. I am no longer just a victim but also a perpetrator.