Transphobia

[SardiH]

I am absolutely disgusted by the vile bigotry and absolutely hatred shown by some people on here. I realise those people peddling this feel justified in doing so. The truth is the bigoted never see their form of bigotry as bigotry. Racists doing think they bigoted they think they have a valid point of view - truth is they are vile racists. Homophobic people the same. Sexist people the same. Mysogynistic the same. Xenophobic the same. And transphobic = yes indeed, exactly the same. It's very sad. It's sad for the people who hold such hatred in their hearts. It's sad for the transgender community who have to live with the consequences of such bigotry and ignorance and haterd and opposition to just fulfilling their destiny as they feel it.

I just hope enough good people stand up with the trans community against this hatred and bigotry and that we move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople. We have made great progress with this over recent years despite the best efforts of some.

I hope those with hate in their hearts can heal in time and become kinder and more understanding. My wise old grandma used to say those who bear hatred of others can never be truly happy.

I know the backlash to this post will be vile from some. I won't be reading the replies. I have no need to.

Love
X

Women don't have penises. That's not transphobia it's biology.

Lesbians should not be called transphobic for not wanting sex with people with penises.

Next.

Oh, I was going to ignore this goady fucking thread, but I can't let @saratustra 's misinformation lie. I have never seen anyone on MN calling a trans woman a 'lady dick'. On the other hand, plenty of TRAs have told women (actual natal women) to 'suck my dick', which tends to upset a lot of women. Go Google Danielle Muscato and that phrase, make sure you also do an image search.

The people, trans or not, insulting other people and saying things like sick my dick are totally unacceptable and awful. That’s completely unrelated to what I said. I did read what I said I read, I’m not sure if you are saying I’m making this up, but I read it - among other lovely things - and was horrified. I guess I fall in the fucking goady category.

@CaptainKirkssparetupee thanks!

@SardiH - congratulations! You are the 1,000th person to start a new thread saying exactly the same thing but without (a) giving any specifics of hatred - MNHQ delete anything that I'd genuinely hateful or transphobic, just not things that are about facts (b) ever returning to engage with the rational responses.

There is a special prize.

I wonder what it’s going to be like in 10 years time. Will the human population start dying out because people don’t have reproductive organs due to sex changes?

"dandybelle I would think that most true transgender women don't want their penis anymore than an actual woman would like a penis."

(I know dandy is now off climbing a peak... 😁) But this is a very interesting choice of words - especially from someone who 3 pages back was potentially viewing anything other than TWAW as transohobia. Someone who is sympathetic and identifies struggles... Yet her language gives away her subconscious views; "than an actual woman".

Eat your heart out Freud.

Oh for God's sake MNHQ how is this not goady? How is this "in the spirit of the site"?
Women have been deleted for yawning and even less.

saratrustra I’ve never seen a trans woman called a ‘lady dick’ on MN or anywhere else. I have seen TRAs referring to their intact PE is as a lady dick. Are you sure you haven’t misunderstood/skim read? I’ve been on lots of trans threads (mostly lurking) and genuinely never seen that. Can you get a screenshot of an example?

Penis not PE is.

I've been lurking on these threads for a while. The whole controversy reminds me of the case of Rachel Dolezal here in the US. I don't know how much this was in the news in the UK, so here's some background.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

She was born blond and blue eyed, mostly of German and Swedish heritage and somehow self identified as Black/African American. She even had a job teaching African American Studies and a local leadership post in the NAACP, an African American civil rights organization. She dyed her skin, colored and curled her hair, etc. And she lived that way for so many years that on some level it really became true to her.

Most people here considered it fraudulent. She lost her teaching job, NAACP position, etc. because she had fundamentally misrepresented her genetic and cultural heritage. Taking up the mantel and wearing the uniform transformed her on some level, but not a fundamental one. I recall seeing a real African American civil rights leader discussing it on a news show and she pointed out that she could identify herself as Chinese but that wouldn't actually make her Chinese. There would be nothing wrong with her learning to speak Chinese, learn about Chinese history and culture, etc. but that she could never actually be Chinese.

It's like that old joke, "Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?".

How did we get here?

Looks like the OP got what they wanted.

I have occasionally seen outright transphobia on this site. I’ve also seen instances of backlash against transwomen that seems unfair (for example, the recent thread in response to LunaPads putting a ‘gendered language’ warning on a tweet - which was clearly aimed at the transmen and non-binary customers that they make products for, but was full of angry posts about how men don’t have periods etc.)

You also frequently see ‘witty’ comments about transwomen appearing in completely unrelated threads, which seems hostile and unnecessary.

It just feels like people are constantly itching to stoke anger, rather than be constructive.

I agree with the OP. Transphobia is rife on here. Its not a great look for Mumsnet. On Twitter they are calling transphobic Mumsnet people 'Mumsmutters'. I often get told I support trans people because a man told me to (which is bollocks). I don't believe most of the phobes on here actually know a real trans person. Here's a great summary of the issues rosieswayne.blogspot.com/?m=1

Sorty, Mumsnutters, not Mumsmutters

@SardiH C-

Good use of some of the 'writing to persuade' success criteria.
Excellent use of emotive language and repetition to get the point across.

You could improve further by:

• extending your vocabulary and avoiding the same words when repeating the same point (bigotry/bigoted = 7, vile = 3, hate/hatred = 6, sad = 3 etc).
• using rhetorical questions.
• taking more care with spelling.
• adding more substance to support your arguments.

Remember that the GCSEs will be sooner than you think, so keep practicing!

Okay I think this thread is going too far now.

I often get told I support trans people because a man told me to

@spannablue. I'm sorry people were mean to you over the self ID argument. I agree that it would be better if GC posters always engaged with specific arguments and avoided cheap points. People get frustrated, but it does lead to ill feeling and isn't helpful. Let me look at your points:

On Twitter they are calling transphobic Mumsnet people 'Mumsmutters'.
I don't believe most of the phobes on here actually know a real trans person.

Oh, OK. I think I might understand why people tease you. Maybe consider not calling them names?

Okay I think this thread is going too far now.

Indeed. There is sadly some transphobia on MN- I've reported posts on here and always do when it comes up.

The fact that the odd muppet jumps on the bandwagon does not invalidate the argument against self ID.

@Splurge77 a lot of the frustration boils over when there is a straw that breaks the camel's back.

For some it's being called "menstruators", for others it was the "cervix havers", others find the men claiming to have pmt/periods... and so on.

But please consider this happens in the light of sustained attacks and nonstop aggression and colonisation of women's terminology, language and experiences.

Mumsnutters, Because calling people names who are saying things you don't like, is the best argument for your viewpoint...

Are there transphobic posts on Mumsnet? Define transphobic because it is used to dismiss anything negative that is said about a transgender person.
Is saying that a transwomen who is a convicted rapist, should never be in a womens prison, transphobic?
Is saying allowing transwomen to take part in womens sports is not fair, transphobic, whilst there is no evidence using female hormones negates any of the advantages of having been born male?
Is saying that in single sex spaces like changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards etc transwomen shouldn't automatically be allowed in, to keep women and girls safe, transphobic?
Is not being happy having a man who is parttime a woman, win an award for womens participation, transphobic?
Is saying that it is not fair that the first female CEO, first female helicopter pilot are actually born men and that title should actually go to when a woman achieves that, transphobic?
Is saying you don't appreciate when spokespeople on tv and in media on womens issues, are transwomen as they don't fully understand womens challenges and are therefore better equipped to speak on behalf of transgender people, transphobic?
Is saying that changing birth certificates to that of the opposite sex is actually rewriting history, is that transphobic?

Anyine care to explain if any or all of the above are true examples of transphobic behaviour?

What posts have you seen that are transphobic?

I think you're getting protecting women's safe places from allowing any males free access, with transphobia.

I am gender critical but I couldn't give a toss who wears what, or any adult that chooses to undergo surgery. I feel sorry for anyone who actually has gender dysphoria but I do not want penis owners in women only places. HTH

Oh dear. I'm not calling people Mumsnutters. I'm reporting that this is how transphobic Mumsnetters are being described on Twitter by other people. Clear?