Transphobia

[SardiH]

I am absolutely disgusted by the vile bigotry and absolutely hatred shown by some people on here. I realise those people peddling this feel justified in doing so. The truth is the bigoted never see their form of bigotry as bigotry. Racists doing think they bigoted they think they have a valid point of view - truth is they are vile racists. Homophobic people the same. Sexist people the same. Mysogynistic the same. Xenophobic the same. And transphobic = yes indeed, exactly the same. It's very sad. It's sad for the people who hold such hatred in their hearts. It's sad for the transgender community who have to live with the consequences of such bigotry and ignorance and haterd and opposition to just fulfilling their destiny as they feel it.

I just hope enough good people stand up with the trans community against this hatred and bigotry and that we move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople. We have made great progress with this over recent years despite the best efforts of some.

I hope those with hate in their hearts can heal in time and become kinder and more understanding. My wise old grandma used to say those who bear hatred of others can never be truly happy.

I know the backlash to this post will be vile from some. I won't be reading the replies. I have no need to.

Love
X

Another major irritation with the trans-agenda is the hijacking of the victim status. Women are silenced and shamed with figures and hysterical tales of abuse against mostly trans-women. It completely ignores the overwhelming statistics of murder and violence against women overall though. Furthermore, on closer inspection into some cases of domestic violence against trans women, the aggressor was also trans. The figures for the UK for trans victims are actually really quite miniscule, so often trans activists instead refer to the high number of violence and deaths of trans women for example in Brazil etc. However, once again, no actual figure is given for the overall number of female victims! Because that figure would totally overshadow the deliberate selective skewering of statistics. And the figures bandied around are often completely fictional and there is no proof to back it up but even though they are anectodical, they are then being regurgitated and established as gospel. And most of all it ignores the overall violent attitude within certain societies towards women. However, those hysterical statistics of violence against trans-women are even more misleading because they fail to actually disclose that among the victims, many actually were sex workers. The proportional share of trans sex-workers, especially pre-op is really quite high because it is seen as a way to make money fast for those wanting especially a very glamorised female look and pay for costly cosmetic surgery. And you only need to check UK advertising to see that there are large numbers of trans sex workers. So, the violence against trans people is actually down to them being statistically at a higher risk due to their occupation, especially due to the higher prevalence in street-based prostitution in certain countries and the fact it might be pushed underground. And once again, those statistics don’t look at comparable rates of violence against biologically female sex workers.

The real overwhelming majority of victims of domestic violence are and always have been women! The most sinister consequence of the proposed self-Id actually means that dangerous perpetrators can come after the victims by demanding access to female sanctuaries! And those running refuges are increasingly under pressure to comply due to fearing that their funding will be removed. And I spent years reading the horror stories of Mumsnetters who try to leave dangerous men! We all should have learned by now that they would precisely be the sort of people that would exploit this ridiculous Orwellian legal travesty to come after the victims!

What is your definition of transphobia, LividAtDolphins?

The figures for the UK for trans victims are actually really quite miniscule, so often trans activists instead refer to the high number of violence and deaths of trans women for example in Brazil etc. However, once again, no actual figure is given for the overall number of female victims!

YY. 13 women murdered every day in Brazil.

@Ereshkigal Sadly, the figure you quoted very much mirrors the rising death rate of women in Brazil I found. In 2016, according to statistics, 4,606 women were killed in Brazil. Many of whom were killed by current or former husbands or partners. Typically, before the killing, violence had scaled up and gone unpunished. Trans-gender organisations and lobbyists claims that some 868 trans-women were murdered in Brazil. However, that was over a period of at least 8 years. It is a shocking number nevertheless and I feel sorry for any victim of crime. But we are asked to forego our safe spaces in sympathy of these murdered Brazilian trans-women who in reality represent 2.7% of total Brazilian adult female victims. This figure, as shocking each murder is on a human scale does not warrant the disregard of the suffering of biological women and girls. There are no Pity Olympics and quoting statistics of the danger to trans-women blatantly denies the suffering of women. The same transgender crime watch shows 8 murders of trans women over 8 years in the UK. In contrast, statistics showed that every 2.6 days, a woman was murdered, most of which by a current or ex-partner. This means that murders of trans-women account for less than 1 percent. So, why are UK women expected to surrender their sanctuaries?

Also that number is probably much higher, as women regularly disappear off the face off the earth there without too many questions asked.

Yes, sadly you are right again. These are at best estimates because a lot of the poorest and most vulnerable female victims are not necessarily officially registered, many live in slums and the police does not really support victims of domestic violence. So, in reality the ratio is even worse stacked against women. It’s in this heart-breaking context that the trans activists attempts to hijack and negate the suffering of women is all the more distasteful and yet another symptom of male privilege and entitlement. It’s like we are asked to rate each male victim hundred times more important than females and surrender our rights and basically just shut up and humour their pity party.

Totally agree.

I see that there is a distinct lack of answers to reasonable questions

I see that there is a distinct lack of answers to reasonable questions

You mean like what do you consider transphobia?

Which was answered with "posts are deleted so it happened"...

These are at best estimates because a lot of the poorest and most vulnerable female victims are not necessarily officially registered, many live in slums and the police does not really support victims of domestic violence. So, in reality the ratio is even worse stacked against women. It’s in this heart-breaking context that the trans activists attempts to hijack and negate the suffering of women is all the more distasteful and yet another symptom of male privilege and entitlement. It’s like we are asked to rate each male victim hundred times more important than females and surrender our rights and basically just shut up and humour their pity party

Yes, yes, and yes again.

LividAtDolphins Apart from that I agree with OP that we should denounce transphobia.

I assumed you would have bothered to read up on the topic being discussed here before making any big sweeping generalisations. However the fact you are saying something quite so obvious as the above shows you have just jumped in with absolutely no scrutiny at all.

Being pro-women and pro-women's safety and dignity from the class of people that do the overwhelming majority of harm (men) is not transphobic. Seeing that predatory assaulters, rapists and men's rights activists view the transgender community as a perfect Trojan Horse for them to get at their victims isn't transphobic. And taking steps to raise the alarm and alert people to these dangerous men isn't transphobic. And shouting even louder when those predators and dangerous men try and smother us from stating these facts isn't transphobic.

Do you honestly think legions of women - many of who have been lifelong activists and supporters of minority and targeted groups - just woke up one day and collectively thought they'd be nasty for shits and giggles?

Either you do, and you have a very peculiar lens of how you see women; or you simply didn't look at what was actually being said and just jumped on a bandwagon to signal your virtue.

livid

Are you named after that thread the other day where the poster was very annoyed at dolphins

Rufus yes.

ShotsFired I honestly have no idea what you're going on about. You just wrote a whole list of things that are apparently not transphobic. I never said they were transphobic. Nor did OP.

SalemBlackCat4 What is your definition of transphobia, LividAtDolphins?

I don't think I'm an authority on the subject. The dictionary says "intense dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people", which sounds about right. Seems to fit in with the definitions of other -isms.

LividAtDolphins, what actions would you like us to take so that we can do as the OP asks and move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople.

What do you want me to say? It feels like you're trying to set me up so you can make a point here. Given the above definition, nobody should really need to be told what to do to not be hateful and prejudiced against an entire group of people based on the actions of just some of them.

I'm not some guardian angel for transpeople. I just wanted to point out the absurdity of so many people clamouring to point out how not transphobic they are in response to an OP that is so unspecific that only an actual transphobic person could feel it was aimed at them.

You just wrote a whole list of things that are apparently not transphobic. I never said they were transphobic. Nor did OP

It would be much more useful if the OP said what they thought was transphobic, but they did that shitty plop and run. And then pop back ...and run

People are defending themselves from accusations of transphobia that HAVE been made, not necessarily on this thread

But as the OP said nothing fucking useful at all they are having to assume

Personally I agree that if you havent been transphobic that you shouldn't need to defend yourself...so I haven't

But i am also aware that the OP and others like her would be sat there going 'see...they cant even defend themselves, they know they are transphobic and everyone on the thread agrees'

My opinion obviously

That thread was funny livid

Didnt read the whole thing but that OP was not happy

There was a thread the other day and the OP said 'can anybody who has said ABC tell me why they think that way'

No one replied (partly cos no one had said ABC, and partly cos they couldnt be arsed probably)

And then the OP started getting angry that no one was answering their question

When they had specifically said only people that had said ABC should, you can't win

If you have a penis you are a man. You may believe you are not. I believe you are. My belief is more valid than your belief because its supported by visible evidence and yours is not. If you believe you are something other than that I do not have to support that. Belief is not fact.

i Suspect that some people are trying to create hatred, by deliberately focusing on the trigger points for women.

Eg BY being aggressive rather than actually willing to discuss... up thread someone says something like, you are all hateful I won’t talk , which is throwing an insult and running away

Trigger points are those where woman’s mental stability will be affected. Anything that involves naked women for example.

As an more specific example, Rather than saying, as a transwomen I would like additional protection against men, how can I get this? , they say as a transwomen I am a woman , shut up and shift up.

women know that a transwoman isn’t actually a woman. Historically they were ( on average obs ) likely to be sensitive to a person who said, I am a transwomen , can I share? but once you say I am a woman, It is lying to women,. deliberate lying always destroys trust.

Then when women say, because we are as a group always looking to smooth troubled waters, .perhaps they don’t see it as a lie because they understand the word women differently , we are given no description of a woman that is not recursive ( ie no description of woman that does not use the word woman) or that suggests the human species is biologically completely different to any other on the planet.

There is some agenda at play that is trying to make us defensive, aggressive and polarised. It’s probably misogyny with a dash of true transphobia.

Men who self ID as women but still have male bodies should not be going into female-only spaces and it is not transphobic to say that, but let's not pretend that there's no transphobia on the mumsnet feminist board.

Where? Quotes please.

*glad, not sure who you wantbquotes from. In my case, rtt.

That was a reply to the previous post

Thank you for those stats Waikiki. Truly horrifying

A transwoman was on Twitter the other day being very emotive about the need for abused transwomen to access female only refuges. E.g. ‘Where will we go, what will we do?’

Someone pointed out that within living memory there were no refuges at all, even for women, and that women had to organise and fundraise and set them up and suggested if they saw a need for the same services for Transwomen they may want to do the same and suggested they may want to contact Erin Pizzey for pointers. Obviously there was tumbleweed.

I think gender dysphoria is real and causes great distress to those suffering from it. I have known a number of transsexual people, from the 1970s onwards. I have symphasised with their attempts to make their bodies more resemble those of the opposite sex in order to alleviate their discomfort. I continue to support these people.
However I do not support gender self ID because I do not want fully male bodied people in single sex spaces. I do not want fetishists in the changing room at the leisure centre, especially if my granddaughters are getting changed in there. (We know that predatory men will go to great lengths to access victims, and gender self ID is pretty much an open invitation for them.). I want to be assured that if I request a female HCP I will be treated by a real woman, not a man pretending to be a woman. I don’t see that any of this constitutes transphobia.