Transphobia

[SardiH]

I am absolutely disgusted by the vile bigotry and absolutely hatred shown by some people on here. I realise those people peddling this feel justified in doing so. The truth is the bigoted never see their form of bigotry as bigotry. Racists doing think they bigoted they think they have a valid point of view - truth is they are vile racists. Homophobic people the same. Sexist people the same. Mysogynistic the same. Xenophobic the same. And transphobic = yes indeed, exactly the same. It's very sad. It's sad for the people who hold such hatred in their hearts. It's sad for the transgender community who have to live with the consequences of such bigotry and ignorance and haterd and opposition to just fulfilling their destiny as they feel it.

I just hope enough good people stand up with the trans community against this hatred and bigotry and that we move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople. We have made great progress with this over recent years despite the best efforts of some.

I hope those with hate in their hearts can heal in time and become kinder and more understanding. My wise old grandma used to say those who bear hatred of others can never be truly happy.

I know the backlash to this post will be vile from some. I won't be reading the replies. I have no need to.

Love
X

I've seen the calibre of those who call us Mumsnutters, and they absolutely uphold why people call it Twatter.

TalkingintheDark JAPAB upthread was drawing the usual false equivalence between gay rights and rights for male people who identify as trans.

In oth4rwords you skim-read the posts, spotted the words "homosexual" and "trans" mentioned in close proximity, then launched off into a long argument against strawmen of your own creation based on past experience of when those words got mentioned close together. Rather than responding to anything I personally was saying :)

Well anyway, the only equivalence I drew is that I consider it as transphobic to misrepresent who trans people have a beef with as it would be to do this to homosexuals and the people some of them silence, throw invective at, etc.

Whether the rights a group want are right or wrong has no bearing on whether it is phobic to misreprent them in this way. That is an independent point that I drew no equivalence between.

Gay people have historically been discriminated against by straight people; straight people have had more power in society.

Wouldn't the male gays have more power than female heterosexuals? Trans men have less power than cis men? Not that who has power over who has much to do with whether the sought-for rights are "correct" or not. They either are or they aren't. If they are, all this power stuff is irrelevant. If they are not, all this power stuff is irrelevant.

Transwomen are not male - that's the point.
Men pretending to be trans to abuse women are criminals. Just like anyone who is attempting to attack another person.
Transwomen are still women. It's not their fault that there are predatory males.

cabingirl

Can you tell us how we are meant to tell the difference between the trans women who mean no harm and the men who are predators pretending? Is there some form of test or evaluation that can be administered? When is this test done? How can we ensure that this test is done before another Karen White incident, to prevent that sort of thing happening, which is the essence of safeguarding?

I totally agree, OP. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

The hatred shown on this site is vile, it's such a shame that transphobic people have started congregating on Mumsnet, they are ruining it for the decent people who like to use the site.

Oh and if you're reading this and you're one of the people who write anti-trans rights stuff on these posts, don't bother @ing me. I have zero respect for anything you have to say.

NotBadConsidering

How do you tell the difference between cis women who mean no harm to other women and women who are predators pretending not to be?

How are women in prison protected from cis women who are predators who sexually assault other women in prison - bearing in mind that sexual assault and rape is a violent crime which is not gender restricted?

Do you think Karen White was pretending to be a woman simply to be able to attack women in prison? Or perhaps this one specific person was a predator.

What happens to lesbians who are also guilty of sexual crimes against women? Do they go to a women's prison? Where they are then free to attack women? Do you want lesbian sexual predators to go to the men's prison?

Do you want male homosexuals convicted of sexual crimes against men to go to the women's prison because obviously, the men in the men's prison would be vulnerable?

Transwomen are women. It's possible that some transwomen are criminals and sexual predators, just like straight and homosexual women.

cabingirl

So incredibly disingenuous. The number of women who sexually assault other women is tiny. Men are sexual predators at rates of 99% compared to lesbian or heterosexual women.

rape is a violent crime which is not gender restricted

Rape can only be carried out by a male, with a penis, as UK law. The incredibly small number of women who are sexual predators are kept in high security facilities. Women are protected by that and their equality in size and strength, the same as men in terms of their risk of being sexually assaulted by other men.

Do you think Karen White was pretending to be a woman simply to be able to attack women in prison?

I have no idea. By Stonewall’s definition Karen White is trans. Karen White is still undergoing a process of transition. White has been sentenced to life. Where do YOU think White should serve that sentence: a men’s or women’s prison?

Your argument seems to be sexual assault in prison happens, so sticking a known rapist with a penis with women is just part of that, nothing we can do. Would you be willing to say, face to face to those four women White sexually assaulted, that “well, it could have been a lesbian, so there was no point trying to prevent this. Soz”.

So I’ll ask again: how do we tell who the predators are and who aren’t?

Do you think White should serve our their sentence in a men’s prison or women’s prison?

@cabingirl "Transwomen are not male - that's the point.
Men pretending to be trans to abuse women are criminals. Just like anyone who is attempting to attack another person.
Transwomen are still women. It's not their fault that there are predatory males."

Wrong. You are completely wrong, that is the point. Transwomen are not women. They are male. They are transwomen. That is what you are getting wrong.

@SardiH this is your first post or have you name changed?

If you've name changed can I ask why?

you're one of the people who write anti-trans rights

Pro women's rights. Not everything is about them.

Transwomen are women - no they aren’t though. They are transwomen, which is a third gender and should be accepted and celebrated for what it is and third spaces created for.

This whole argument really pisses me off. I accept that anyone can call themselves what they want. I will use any names/pronouns that people choose to use for themselves and I have no problem with transwomen/transmen saying they are women/men. But seriously, why does one subset have to be erased to make way for another? Why can't you do you and I do me? I got into a heated debate for using the word breastfeeding because 'it's erasive', I'm quite openly bisexual and so spend a lot of time at LQBTQ events and have had lebsian friends come under fire for not wanting to suck a lady dick, I've even been told I my 3 year old son must be trans because he occasionally likes to play with a doll. Hell, one woman decided to go off on one at me because period is apparently a trigger word. Fuck off already. Your experiences are valid, but they do not erase or trump mine.

Never seen any transphobia on Mumsnet

Ever thought that that might be because transphobic posts mostly get deleted? Something that, I have to say, the FWR threads clearly find quite convenient as it helps to maintain the narrative that they aren't transphobic.

Volant actually most of the deletions on FWR are for personal attacks against the women there.

‘Trans women are women’ until it comes to women’s rights and then no fucks are given.

Go and have a lie down in a dark room

maxthemartian, that doesn't change the fact that transphobic posts and threads are deleted.

Your experiences are valid, but they do not erase or trump mine.

^^This is the point.
Previous campaigns for rights have not involved trying to remove rights from anyone else.
(Unless you think person 1 should have a right to be paid more than person 2 because of what's inside their underwear, for instance.)

Why do people start threads on mumsnet just to tell other people on mumsnet off

And why are they rude enough to just plop their post down and say they wont be reading any replies

Because they might hear something which challenges them and that would fry their tiny brains.
They should just fuck off. Partly because they’re wrong but mainly because they’re boring. Even the nutjobs on twatter give better value than this.

Don’t you get it, fuckwits? These are feminists, women who have already decided that social approval can and should be dispensed with in pursuit of justice for women. Your pathetic tactics are transparent and will not work.

THIS

Watch it eresh you’ll get deleted too.
Honestly, this place isn’t what it used to be. Getting rid of the word woman is bad enough. Deprive me of the word fuckwit and I’ve had it

It's a human right to express that tranwomen are not women, it's not wrong and it's not hate.
You and those like you have views of what is transphobia which line up to neither law or reality.

I agree with the above statement, but I'd guess that people who don't agree with it would liken it to those who, in the past, believed that only white people were real humans, while others were not human.

The difference, of course, is that biological analysis can prove that all colours and races of people are human, whereas it would prove that a transwoman is not female and so is not a woman