Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Transphobia

359 replies

SardiH · 11/10/2018 19:16

I am absolutely disgusted by the vile bigotry and absolutely hatred shown by some people on here. I realise those people peddling this feel justified in doing so. The truth is the bigoted never see their form of bigotry as bigotry. Racists doing think they bigoted they think they have a valid point of view - truth is they are vile racists. Homophobic people the same. Sexist people the same. Mysogynistic the same. Xenophobic the same. And transphobic = yes indeed, exactly the same. It's very sad. It's sad for the people who hold such hatred in their hearts. It's sad for the transgender community who have to live with the consequences of such bigotry and ignorance and haterd and opposition to just fulfilling their destiny as they feel it.

I just hope enough good people stand up with the trans community against this hatred and bigotry and that we move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople. We have made great progress with this over recent years despite the best efforts of some.

I hope those with hate in their hearts can heal in time and become kinder and more understanding. My wise old grandma used to say those who bear hatred of others can never be truly happy.

I know the backlash to this post will be vile from some. I won't be reading the replies. I have no need to.

Love
X

OP posts:
PerverseConverse · 14/10/2018 14:09

WickedLazy thinking isn't allowed, haven't you grasped that yet?! Explains a great deal about the pro-men-in-women's-spaces brigade.

BakedBeans47 · 14/10/2018 14:10

The problem is “fulfilling their destiny as they feel it” as you put it (a) doesn’t reflect biological reality and (b) stands to affect the hard won rights of actual females.

So YABU

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/10/2018 14:10

I don't think you understood my point tbh.

It doesn't suprise me that you don't think.

GladAllOver · 14/10/2018 14:11

If you are not transphobic, then there is no need to reply to the thread defending yourself!

So you want to say something that is fundamentally wrong, and expect people to just accept and ignore it. Why on earth bother to post it on a discussion board then?

LividAtDolphins · 14/10/2018 14:12

It doesn't suprise me that you don't think.

Should it surprise me that you prefer to be rude and insult people than have a civil discussion?

calpop · 14/10/2018 14:12

Its funny, all I hear when I try and read these fake TRA "make the MN boards look bad" OPs now is: .........vile............blah.................vile................ttransohobic........vile............. ........... vile ........

Its all so meaningless and unsubstantiated. And so transparent

WickedLazy · 14/10/2018 14:13

Can anyone explain to me what about the two memes I reposted, broke talk guidelines? What I typed/has been allowed to stay is surely more inflammatory? Confused

Can I type it..? What they're afraid of: Vampires=Sunlight, Superman=Kryptonite, Transgender=Basic Biology. The other one was along the lines of "if they can't accept that they're male, how can we accept that they're female".

Elephantinacravat · 14/10/2018 14:15

She did say she wants to "stand against hatred and bigotry" and wants people to be "kinder and more understanding".

Why can't people be 'kinder and more understanding' towards women who don't want to share their intimate spaces with male bodied people? Why does this 'kindness and understanding' only go one way?

LividAtDolphins · 14/10/2018 14:17

So you want to say something that is fundamentally wrong, and expect people to just accept and ignore it. Why on earth bother to post it on a discussion board then?

She didn't want people to accept and ignore it. She wanted to encourage people to stand up against transphobia. That's not the same as wanting to shut down legitimate debate. So many people here are arguing that airing legitimate feminist concerns is not transphobia. If that's true, then why are they arguing against an anti-transphobia thread??

Why can't people be 'kinder and more understanding' towards women who don't want to share their intimate spaces with male bodied people? Why does this 'kindness and understanding' only go one way?

I think they call that "whataboutery". You're not wrong to want that, but it's not something OP mentioned so it's not really relevant to the thread.

CecilyP · 14/10/2018 14:17

The vampires one was probably fine, but the other one featured a real person!

GladAllOver · 14/10/2018 14:18

Should it surprise me that you prefer to be rude and insult people than have a civil discussion?

No it shouldn't surprise you at all, since that was the intention of the original goady post.

GladAllOver · 14/10/2018 14:22

Why can't people be 'kinder and more understanding' towards women who don't want to share their intimate spaces with male bodied people? Why does this 'kindness and understanding' only go one way?

And why is it only one side that uses actual physical violence against the other?

WickedLazy · 14/10/2018 14:22

That could be it, I thought the word girl blocked out the eyes enough it wouldn't be an issue, but I guess the beard is too distinctive 🤔

Mxyzptlk · 14/10/2018 14:23

This is from the OP :
I just hope enough good people stand up with the trans community against this hatred and bigotry and that we move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople. We have made great progress with this over recent years despite the best efforts of some.

So, how can we do that, LividAtDolphins?

LividAtDolphins · 14/10/2018 14:25

If legitimate discussions about the impact on women regarding transwomen (aka biological males) being given free access to female spaces are not transphobia, then those of you who want open debate on the former do not need to defend yourselves to people speaking out against the latter.

The problem is that the line between the two is often blurred by things like the images you posted, WickedLazy, which offer no critical insight or debate, but do clearly belittle a group of people and stir anti-trans sentiment.

Numerous people have said in this thread that MNHQ would promptly delete actual transphobic posts while allowing genuine debate to remain, so at least you have offered good evidence of that.

PerverseConverse · 14/10/2018 14:27

I do believe that dolphins has admitted that transwomen are men in their last post! Was it on this post that someone pointed out that the language used by posters revealed their true beliefs? Might have been another thread though.

LividAtDolphins · 14/10/2018 14:32

I don't think I ever mentioned my beliefs on the whole issue in the first place, Perverse. Apart from that I agree with OP that we should denounce transphobia. The fact that you read so much else into that is quite illustrative of the point I've been trying to make!

WickedLazy · 14/10/2018 14:38

"Which offer no critical insight"

Terms like, "Basic Biology", should be sufficient in this debate. It really should be that simple. The problem is it isn't though. This whole debate is so convulated, so many seperate issues are being thrown together under the "trans" umbrella, which is a problem in itself.

MNHQ let my post where I called the trans agenda bullshit stand though. Which is reassuring. (I think my other post was delated because it had a picture of a celeb?).

I've posted on numerous threads on this issue, many excellent points have been made, but nothing has changed. I guess I'm just feeling quite cynical at this point?

Hyppolyta · 14/10/2018 14:40

I agree there should be no transphobia, and on mumsnet there is none.

This has been proved to OP who will doubtless never apologise for the false accusations.

BumbrainusMaximus · 14/10/2018 14:44

Ffs what utter bullshit. If the op really wanted to take a brave stand for trans people she’d still be here.
What she actually wanted was to be a tedious goady little fart. In that she succeeded admirably. And if that brings her fulfilment well, she has my sympathy. That’s no life.

TemptressofWaikiki · 14/10/2018 14:47

Whenever I see extremely vociferous trans-activists, it appears that a lot of gay men with gynophobia appear to be shouting the loudest with a seriously hateful agenda towards women. It appears that once again men shout over and trying to silence women with the threat of violence. Ironically, I was really laidback about this whole issue and it was a trans friend who quietly transitioned who spoke of a real concern and worry about the emerging trans activism over 12 years ago. I wish, I had actually heeded those concerns. The number of those with actual gender dysphoria is quite small in real terms but the movement has been hijacked by transvestites and men with autogynephilia. Especially the latter are really among the most aggressive in their quest to forcing women to indulge their sexual peccadillos and I refuse to pander to their fetish at the detriment to my rights. I fully support gay and lesbian rights because they are basic human right issues that do not encroach on anyone else’s rights. However, trans-gender activists do in fact advocate the infringement of women’s rights. I will resist that. I also want those suffering from gender dysphoria to actually be recognised and receive medical support. I am concerned that those with some identity confusion are swept up by peer pressure and non-professional quackery.

Especially, the trans-agenda pushed on children, especially prepubescent worries me extremely. Feeling confused and questioning your gender is really common among children. Social conditioning still is very prevalent and a lot of kids of both sexes just don’t feel like they fit in. I didn’t as a tom boy during my childhood and I know quite a few my friends did not either. However, there are actual proven studies that in the vast majority of children, do actually end up reconciling with their biological sex, as did I. However, there are organisations that really push the trans diagnosis on confused kids. And it seems tempting because it appears to offer an instant answer and solution. Worse it ignores a really worrying aspect of why some children reject their body and feel so upset and repulsed by their sex organs. Quite a few, especially trans-women/girls de-transitioned when they came to terms with the underlying issues, often this was sexual abuse. Trans-activists appear to actively discourage this research and even seek to discredit respectable medical professionals because it doesn’t fit their agenda or narrative. And part of the mental health issues of kids that have some gender confusion stems from the over-zealous mislabelling as being trans. Because the blanket diagnosis does not actually address the underlying issues. I kept wondering about the disproportional pressure and input of trans-activists till I realised, that there are a lot of people making money from catering for this buoying market niche, including cosmetics, wigs, or offering all manner of services, such voice altering etc

PerverseConverse · 14/10/2018 14:52

It's always tempting to report these threads as goady fuckwittery but I've learnt that they are excellent in highlighting the complete batshittery around self ID and the rampant misogyny that exists in society.

timetodothis · 14/10/2018 14:53

I would think that most true transgender women don't want their penis anymore

This couldn't be further from the truth.

The majority are opting to keep their penises.

Women don't want men with fully functioning penises accessing female only spaces where there are women and young adolescent girls getting changed and possibly dealing with periods and all the hassle that goes with it.

To object to that is not being transphobic.

I suggest you read up a bit more about the whole Self-ID issue.

WickedLazy · 14/10/2018 14:57

Some male to female transexuals hate their own penises so much they want them removed, becoming infertile, at risk of never having an orgasm again, or sex that isn't painful, ever again. Neovaginas are essentially wounds that must be manually kept open, least they shut. It astounds me this is considered ethical from a medical perspective, and in my opinion is akin to removing a persons eye, because they insist they've sinned and God said "if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out", or letting an anorexic starve themselves to death, because they're convinced they're fat. I'm agnostic and not convinced that humans have souls, but I do think it's impossible to have been "born in the wrong body", which is quite different from being told "you should have been a girl".

Others love their "lady dick" (to use the vernacular), and sometimes using it, to the point of obsession? Social media (and the internet generally) is awash with men who demand to be called women, posting naked pictures that show very clearly they are biologically male and not female, and do not have a problem with their male reproductive systems, arguing that having or penis or not has nothing to do with being a woman... Actually, the only thing that makes a male or female such, is biology and reproductive capability. That's a scientific fact.

Gender is a socially impossed construct, a persons personality might sadly be hindered by often riddiculous gender stereotypes (like that men shouldn't wear make up or dresses, or certain colours/ patterns). Transgender implies that gender is the problem and not biological sex, but if so why insist they too are female, instead of embracing being a male who is who and what they are, who likes what they like.

How can one "feel" female, when one has never naturally had the hormones etc of a female? A man may want to "feel" female, maybe even desperately so, for whatever reason, and persue hormone replacement therapy in the hopes that might help. But even with drug therapy (which is ongoing and life long), they will still be fundamentally male, if they had a heart attacks, they'd still be more likely to present with male symptoms. Without hormone therapy, their high level of testosterone (and very few transgender men have a naturally low testosterone level), will still make them more naturally aggressive, and prone to male crimes (sexual assault, mass shootings etc).

I think, when discussing this topic, it's important to keep in mind that there are many seperate issues at play here, body dysmorphia, fetishes such as autogenophillia, exhibitionism, voyeurism etc.Who any adult decides to consensualy engage in sexual activity with is a private matter, but when adults with functioning penises (men?), demand entry into womens spaces, such as changing rooms, female prisons, domestic violence and rape crisis centres, to name a few, sexual orientation becomes relevant, and as there's no possible way to tell for sure who's homosexual and not a threat to women. Until now all men have been denied access to these spaces, for womens safety. Women in prison are especially vulnerable, and at extra risk keeping in mind that 50% of transgender prisoners have been incarcerated for sexual assault/rape.

The pandering to these men, risking the safety of women and children, has, in my opinion, gone far enough. Many of the men who have genital reconstructive surgery, go on the commit suicide, they're so unhappy with the results. Someones friend or loved one, gone, because of a lack of awareness and adequate mental health provision. Society has thrown itself behind this cause, with very little actual awareness or research.

Mxyzptlk · 14/10/2018 15:09

LividAtDolphins, what actions would you like us to take so that we can do as the OP asks and move towards a better and kinder and more understanding world for transpeople.

Swipe left for the next trending thread