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Original poster

To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

999 replies

abacucat · 11/10/2018 10:05

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

OP posts:
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7
ohello · 11/10/2018 22:20

and of course you'll also find on those same trans forums, all the rape threats, doxxing, celebrations about getting people fired from their jobs for questioning anything at all about the inconsistencies within the trans ideology.

Do you ever tell them to be nice? Why exactly is it wrong for people to notice where all the violence is originating from, and whose rights are being trampled on? Why is it phobic for women to have sexual boundaries?

VerbeenaBeeks · 11/10/2018 22:20

What's " not male bodied?" And how does it relate to self id? Do men's bodies magically become XX bodies when they say they're women? Caitlyn Jenner is still well over 6ft...

Caitlyn Jenner's a transitioned transwoman. So you have a problem with them all then? Good to know Hmm

MIdgebabe · 11/10/2018 22:20

But they are othered. They are still not actually women . Sorry . Like black is not white or pink or yello, they are different

although on the whole I would not object , I have met people like this, they tend not to pass but I gloss over that because if they have mutilated their body that much, they are probably very sad people

I would still expect them to move aside if a woman was upset by their presence - as any other woman would do, I also know that’s many of these people would do that and understand the difference. They tend to be the only transwomen who exhibit enough female socialisation and understanding to actaully appreciate what the problem is .

The fem8nsit boards have often agreed that these types of transwomen are likely to be hurt by the i love my penis but I am still a women brigade.

Binglebong · 11/10/2018 22:23

If they're not male bodied anymore though, and had surgery, surely they'd "pass" with you?
The introduction of a third space for them in my opinion is kind of othering.

Men are more than just a penis. Ask any who has lost it in an accident! They still have male bodies. Usually taller, stronger, faster. Their lungs are bigger, even their knees and pelvises are different. Yes, there are big women and small men. But their bodies, no matter what modifications they have had done, are still the bodies of the sex they were born.

As to a third space being othering: it's really not. Call it unisex. Anyone can then use it, male, female, a gender, gender fluid - anyone. But have the separate for males and females who prefer single sex too. No offering and everyone is happy.

VickyEadie · 11/10/2018 22:23

Verbeena doesn't bother to read what people write or think about what they're saying. The point was about male bodies not being transformed into female ones. Jenner has also not had bottom surgery, by The way.

But while I'm here - Having a Brooks and Karen White - should they be welcomed into women's spaces?

VickyEadie · 11/10/2018 22:24

Jacinta Brooks.

Elephantinacravat · 11/10/2018 22:24

Caitlyn Jenner's a transitioned transwoman. So you have a problem with them all then? Good to know

Stating that transwomen are not women is not 'having a problem with them', its stating facts. Surely you are intelligent enough to see the difference? Caitlyn Jenner is not, and never will be, a woman. Caitlyn Jenner is a transwoman.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2018 22:25

Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman

Personally, I would let in anyone with a GRC, who behaved appropriately, but of course other women have the right to disagree with my view
btw, I suspect we would probably all notice a 6'+ former Olympic athlete who has not been photo-shopped - in rl they might not be as convincing

Far better to make the mens' loos unisex
then men, transwomen and all the women who aren't bothered by sharing loos etc can go there

Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:25

For starters, calling transwomen men is part of the problem.

No it isn't. It's not perpetuating a lie. Lying to them isn't kind.

VickyEadie · 11/10/2018 22:25

"Good to know" - FFS.

Datun · 11/10/2018 22:26

I've honestly seen the problem with that. All it requires is a bit of money and planning.

A third, mixed sex space. Anyone who doesn't mind, anyone who doesn't feel comfortable using the bathroom of their sex.

And then separate sex segregated bathrooms as well.

On the reason why this is not usually considered acceptable is it does not validate people's identity.

Which I think is way, way down the list of acceptable objections

VerbeenaBeeks · 11/10/2018 22:27

Verbeena doesn't bother to read what people write or think about what they're saying

Again with the insults if you hear differing opinions. Whatever, I'm used to it.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2018 22:28

Transwomen have every right to present themselves / dress as they please

This right should be irrespective of whether they 100% want to be a woman,
or whether they're 100% faking it,
or a mix.
Their body, their choice.

The problem is when they want to compel the rest of society to treat them 100% as a woman,
in particular to let them into single sex spaces for women and opportunities reserved for women, e.g. in sport.

It is then no longer their choice, because they are taking away existing choices, opportunities and safe spaces from women.

Binglebong · 11/10/2018 22:28

Please don't make men's room unisex. There are many of them who, just like women, can only be with their own sex. Or ate just uncomfortable sbatkng with women. Just use the one that relates to your sex ( not gender!) or create a third space without compromising the other two.

From purely the danger point of view then yes, men need to budge up. They are the problem after all.

Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:28

Surely you are intelligent enough to see the difference?

We know, from the three threads recently that she's made this conflation on, that she doesn't quite at all grasp the difference between not adhering to her non universal belief system and being "transphobic"

Datun · 11/10/2018 22:29

No VerbeenaBeeks twice you have shown that you aren't reading what I write. And then objecting to it.

Observing this and telling you, is not insulting you.

MIdgebabe · 11/10/2018 22:29

Or you could do completely self contained private unisex for all. Each unit big enough for a pram or wheelchair. Gets tricky in prisons and gets tricky in situations where human contact is needed.

I just wish you would be more kind and thoughtful towards women , manybof whom on here have suffered badly at the hands of men, many of whom have mental health problems as a result. It is so unkind , cruel , to keep trying to force them to accept

If you could move away from that then you would remove the threat to women and you might find them happier to engage in dialogue.

MIdgebabe · 11/10/2018 22:30

To accept twaw I meant to say

Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:30

And it's quite a specific belief system, and one very many people that she wants to support would consider bigoted and transphobic in its turn given that she claims to have some reservations about self ID,

VerbeenaBeeks · 11/10/2018 22:31

Seeing as one commenting has blatantly said "I have a problem with them all" on other threads, any insults said by said person goes straight over me.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2018 22:33

It is a balance between a small minority of men feeling hurt because their wishes are not being validated
vs
the 100% of women whose safety - and opportunities in the case of sport and reserved womens' lists - would be reduced

VerbeenaBeeks · 11/10/2018 22:34

No VerbeenaBeeks twice you have shown that you aren't reading what I write. And then objecting to it.Observing this and telling you, is not insulting you

Twisty twistying tactic again. It's clear what you said,but you're making out it can be read another way so it can't outright get pulled.

Datun · 11/10/2018 22:36

VerbeenaBeeks

Saying one has a problem with all transwomen in one's bathroom is entirely understandable. This is why we have sex segregation. Not wanting to grade men on how much an authentic women they make, according to your ever shifting criteria, is perfectly understandable.

You do realise, don't you, that some women have such severe post abuse PTSD, that they can't bear to be even in the general vicinity of strange men.

One in five women have been sexually assaulted. They have every right to be confident in a woman only space when they are disrobing or vulnerable. It's not difficult.

Datun · 11/10/2018 22:38

VerbeenaBeeks

I'm not saying anything that can be twisted, for goodness sake!

I'm saying outright that twice you denied I've said something, then I showed you that I had.

It's like debating with quicksand.

VerbeenaBeeks · 11/10/2018 22:38

Saying one has a problem with all transwomen in one's bathroom is entirely understandable.

The word bathroom didn't come into it. The phrase "nah, I have a problem with them all." was the exact phrase and it was a general comment, nothing to do with bathrooms.

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