To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

[abacucat]

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

KW is currently in Armley a male only holding prison.
Hated the fact the Look North called him she but tbf niether news reader seemed impressed. Richard Garside was great

Normally I really dislike using the wrong pronoun on something where clarity of sex matters. In this instance I think it was perfect as they had a very masculine photo of Karen in the background. O think a lot of people will have gone WTF and questioned how this happened.

don’t think I’ve seen anyone ever on these threads say we should all just accept self ID

There have been such posts

afaik, "truscum" are those vilified by trans rights activists for having had the surgery, instead of just self-ID

thisneverendingsummer is only echoing what is happening in the public domain.

There is a perception that a very small minority are changing things for the majority and play victim top trumps if challenged.

Happens all the time. Women are constantly being told to be kind, be nice, because of the suffering, the journey. And that their rights and boundaries should take second place.

Completely illogical.

Truscum is a slur used by transactivists and autogynephiles, generally to refer to transwomen with gender dysphoria. The accepting that they are men, comes usually with the diagnosis. Historically you didn't get a diagnosis, unless you could accept that you weren't actually a woman.

Yes, surely by definition you cannot acknowledge that you have 'gender dysphoria' without also acknowledging that you are actually the sex that you are.

I don't think 'old school' transsexual women ever demanded that the world actually believe that they are women.

Rufus or anyone else, do you have a link to that 1k thread on FWR, where posters were invited to say why they hated us
I can't find it and iirc, that's where some of the posts were rtelling us to stfu about self-ID
I want to hunt through and screenshot them

I don't think 'old school' transsexual women ever demanded that the world actually believe that they are women

I'm sure it was incredibly affirming if people did believe that, or even pretended to believe it.

But it's the demanding that people say it, irrespective of whether they believe it or not, which is a red flag.

Fortunately that gay cake issue has proved a precedent. The judge concluded that you cannot force someone to say or do something they do not believe in.

Tbh I find it baffling that people hear the words 'predatory men will use self ID in order to get easier access to victims' and somehow come to the conclusion that we are saying all trans women are predatory or only doing it to be predatory.

It's the same fake conflation people used to make when feminists were trying to discuss consent and that the reason it was so important was (still is) because so many women are raped. Then there would be MANY women instantly shouting, "but my husband is nice to me and my son isn't a rapist!"

Now it's "but I know a transwoman and she is lovely therefore all transwomen are lovely!" Do they never stop to hear themselves... It was an avoidance/denial mechanism then, and it's still one now. If they can't understand the argument then magically they don't have to refute the argument; they can just dismiss it instead.

thisneverendingsummer is only echoing what is happening in the public domain.

What that and I quote "the trans folk are chucking their toys out of the pram, getting offended by everything" and also insinuating that they're demanding too many rights? You can't see, at all, how that's not demonising an entire group? Instead you just come up with well that's what's happening in the public domain?!
Maybe some are. There's extremists everywhere. Hardly fair to deny transpeople rights as a whole though just because of the actions of a minority.
Left unchecked, there's proper hate mongering shit on here sometimes.

I know right, bloody rights being given here there and everywhere? Once upon a time, women asked for rights too. Look where that’s got us - they’re even allowed to vote now! We should just stop giving people rights unless we think they’re worthy.

What rights do you think trans people currently do not have?

I do not think that a person who is transgender should be discriminated against on that basis when it comes to employment, housing, access to healthcare * etc etc, just like any other protected group.

However I can still be concerned about the effects of self-id if it was to come through, only today we have seen the potential dangers, it was noted in court that KW wanted access to women and managed to get it. Sadly, sometimes it is necessary to put in safe guards that has a potential negative effect on those who are not involved, this happens in many different areas. This is not transphobic, this is simply saying 'How can we ensure that everyone is protected?' but it is this that is being shut down. Just saying TWAW and it being accepted in all cases no questions asked is how we ended up with the court case today.

I am aware that situations have arisen in Canada, but I also have a feeling that if self-id does go through here, those driving this will soon move onto the next thing, I am worried about the damage in the meantime though.

• I am aware that access to healthcare is much debated.

Hardly fair to deny transpeople rights as a whole though just because of the actions of a minority.

Again, what rights do you think trans people do not have?

Sorry big no idea when it was even

Again, what rights do you think trans people do not have?

Well, transwomen having the rights to be accepted as transwomen, for a start.
Not told "you're not one of us, go away."

i think it would be good to differentiate between the Mra/tra and other trans people - the small number who are sufficiently female that they understand why females get worried about all this , because they do exist

Avoid over generalisation as the tra will use that as evidence of transphobia. Just be squeaky clean.

Or be clear when you are talking about the average behaviour of the class transpeople. Avoid implying that all transpeople are bullies in the same way as you might say namalt.

I know it’s hard when you are feeling bullied and abused but , as ever, in general , women must be better than men to get anywheer.

Well, transwomen having the rights to be accepted as transwomen, for a start.

Who doesn't accept transwomen as transwomen?

I don’t think the issue is that though, your concerns over Self ID are very real and I think most people will agree with that.

It’s the constant belittleing and berating of transgender people as a whole all the time. Refusal to accept that some people may face real hardships because ‘it’s harder for me’ it’s the constant references to ‘dick in a skirt’ and disregard for genuine trans people. It’s tarring them all with the same brush. It is like a hate group for want of a better word.

Replace ‘trans’ with ‘muslim’ as someone said earlier. We can talk about hate groups that pose under the religion of Islam, and about how they are wrong and doing bad things in the name of ‘islam’ how they are wiping out innocent people every day in the name of ‘islam’ But want we can’t start doing is talk badly of the religion as a whole because that is not what Islam’s about and the vast majority of Muslim people are kind genuine people who have a belief that they live by and want to be able to peacefully. We cannot tar them with the same brush and make the teachings of Islam illegal Incase the Iman is a hate preacher and breeding terrorism.

I know that’s an extreme example but when we start classing a huge group of people as one, we get onto dangerous territory. We begin segregating the ‘them’ and the ‘us’ and a lot of the time it is ignorance, which leads to hate, which leads to war. Which ends in tears rather than resolution which is where this is all going imo.

Who doesn't accept transwomen as transwomen?

Are you trying to miss the point? Will re-word to say doesn't accept transwomen as women then.

verbeenabanks transwomen are accepted as transwomen by most women I believe

So no transwomen should say to another “you are not one of us” ? Of course not! I a, horrified that you imply this is happening!

Iif that is a problem, I will fully support you to get rid of transphobia within the trans community . How?

There's extremists everywhere. Hardly fair to deny transpeople rights as a whole though just because of the actions of a minority.
Left unchecked, there's proper hate mongering shit on here sometimes.

What rights? No one is denying rights. People want the law to stay as it is.

Extremists are demanding extra rights. The right of self identification.

The right to pretend they are a biological woman, with a penis. No. Just no.

Calling it hate mongering shit makes you look ridiculous. I've lost all patience with you.

Seriously verbeena

Which one is it, im getting confused (again)

But they are not women. That’s why women don’t accept them as women. I prefer not to lie.

But, taking you in good faith, this makes me think you have different idea of women to me. Please explain it to me .

Transwomen are definitely Transwomen. 100%. I don’t want them to go away, I just don’t want it to be made easy for people with nefarious intentions to be able to self ID in order to gain access to women and girls spaces. So I hope that’s cleared that up. Transwomen are definitely not women though and I don’t want to be bullied and berated into pretending I believe that they are.

Accepting transwomen as women is - for me - asking me to believe something entirely false.

Cross posted with EarlyWalker there and agree entirely.
Telling how it didn't get picked up on either, just from a prolific poster "but that's what happening."
It gets picked up and called out more on here, doesn't so much in there as there's not so many dissenting voices as they've given up.