To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

[abacucat]

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

Or not

It might not be

Sorry verbeena i cross posted

Why cant someone on here say that though...ive never said it but there is a first time for everything

Oooh no i might have said it once

Can't remember

I thought earlywalker suggested "we see through you"
It expresses that we think someone has a hidden agenda, without being "sinister" I think it was called

Caligula has said, I believe that legality is what constitutes a woman. So at least that's something.

No I didn't

Vebeena The MNHQ radar is permanently on FWR
Anything not deleted is within the rules - which are far stricter there than anywhere else

On NO other bit of MN, does MN invite non-members on Twitter to screenshot and complain about posters

Earlywalker

The day of remembrance thing is an odd one.

Because many of the transwomen promoting it, are meant to be women, but don't give a fuck about women who have been killed.

When India Willoughby was interviewed alongside Karen Ingala Smith, India, who is meant to be a woman and lets you know at every opportunity, actually said they felt sorry for the men who had done the killing.

It's the hypocrisy involved, which makes it so difficult.

There really isn't a feminist alive who would feel anything other than horror for the murder of anyone, Trans or otherwise.

But the day remembrance feels hollow. It feels like a political tool. The whole thing is so back to front. Most transwomen are killed in sex work. But it's meant to be empowering. And feminists who disagree are SWERFS. Another slur.

Women who understand how dangerous, degrading and misogynistic sex work is, want to help prostitutes exit it. They will target the men who kill them.

Transactivists don't do that. They target the women who target the men.

It's cognitive dissonance personified.

Maybe you could say 'we see your agenda'

Or is it the 'we' bit thats the issue, i dont think im keen on the we bit

Especially as I rarely see through people on here

RL? I'm fucking awesome...on here im shit

I thought earlywalker suggested "we see through you"
It expresses that we think someone has a hidden agenda, without being "sinister" I think it was called

No wasn’t me, I think the we see you/through you is crap. I think you should own the fact that people may have a different opinion without dismissing it as they’re not who they say they are. So tedious.

"We see you" is sinister, unsettling and vaguely threatening. Like "we're watching you" and "we know where you live".

No I didn't

Figures, twisty twisty confuses matters again. Makes you doubt yourself and think did I?

cough

Once upon a time I used to spend a fair bit of time chatting with young college women who were supportive of transgenderism. We had already established friendship regarding other mutual interests and my impression of these particular young women was over-all positive, so it was easy for me to be kind and gentle -- in my interrogation of them As they were with me in their response.

None of these young women, however, no matter how supportive of transwomen, were willing to tell me that they would agree with any law or rule which required me to relinquish my sexual boundaries.

Not one. And so, I began to wonder about the people on the internet who claimed to be women AND would force me to disrobe in front of a personwithapenis. Anybody can claim to be anything at all on the internet, that doesn't mean I have to believe them.

Makes you doubt yourself and think did I?

I bet even if I scrolled back and copied/pasted exactly what I'd written I'd still get told it said something different to the words that are actually there.

Verbeena I think what we really established on that FWR thread about why you and a few others hate FWR is:

• We have far too many threads on self-ID
  So you wanted us to accept self-ID and stop posting about it.

• Also, you wanted threads on other topics and didn't say which, but wanted us to start them, not you.

We can work on language like "I see you" but we aren't prepared to do the above

Caligula has said, I believe that legality is what constitutes a woman. So at least that's something.

No I didn't confused

Oh well, perhaps that was just reserved for Danielle Muscato. I tried to move things along. Because the disagreement with the feminists from FWR, on here, is going nowhere. As no one is providing an alternative definition of woman.

Caligula Is "we see through you" sinister,
or "we think you have an agenda" ?

The fact that you can’t accept that anyone could possibly disagree with you unless they’re a man or activist, shows what an echo chamber you’re all discussing these views in

It's not when people 'disagree' that they get this stuff, it's when they take up whole entire threads telling people that they are wrong and transphobic, but won't actually commit to building any sort of arguement as to why that is. You can see why that sort of posting behaviour would be annoying can't you?

"We see you" is sinister, unsettling and vaguely threatening. Like "we're watching you" and "we know where you live".

No, no, no. When we want to imply that we say this is the voice of the Mysterons.

I mentioned the phrase "see through you", not as a suggestion but rather that if the connotation was really about identifying an agenda that particular phrasing making more sense.

I don't like either, one is vaguely threatening and the other is a poor attempt to invalidate a genuine differing opinion by declaring it be part of a hidden or overriding agenda.

People do realise that 'we see you' isn't meant literally, don't they?!

I bet even if I scrolled back and copied/pasted exactly what I'd written I'd still get told it said something different to the words that are actually there

Try it!

Id have a go but im really being very lazy today

I don't think the tide is turning. The ad in the Metro likely galvanised people against transphobia too. And anyway, most people probably don't know or care. There are about 6000 responses to the GRA consultation so far- the population of about three secondary schools. People may be more concerned with things like poverty, climate change etc.

I think people on here mocking Trans Day of Remembrance have succeeded in depersonalising trans people. I can't really understand why else there would be such a shocking and sad lack of empathy.

Here's a good summary of the issues: rosieswayne.blogspot.com/?m=1

@Elephantinacravat well obviously. That's why it seemed like a piss poor way of shutting someone down

and sad lack of empathy. I can't help feeling absolutely certain that you're not sad.

I've explained about the day of remembrance.

Datun I'm supportive of trans people and appalled at the transphobia on here. Sorry if my words were too mild! Truth is I've been on about this for days on MN and FB and Twitter and may be getting tired. It's like holding bsck a tsunami of shit.

I bet even if I scrolled back and copied/pasted exactly what I'd written I'd still get told it said something different to the words that are actually there

Yep, did that once myself only for it to get twisted around and not something I said at all.