To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

[abacucat]

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

This post isnt aimed at verbeena but it is related to something she said...just gonna raise my voice for a sec

FWR IS THE MOST HEAVILY MODERATED PART OF MUMSNET. MUMSNET SAW FIT TO LET ANYONE!!! EVEN RANDOMS ONLINE NOT PEOPLE ACTUALLY ON MUMSNET TO COMPLAIN TO MNHQ AND THEY WOULD DELETE. FWR REGULARS HAVE BEEN DELETED FOR SAYING 'BLESS' AND 'YAWN' AS WELL AS GENERALLY STUPID JOKES

i am very happy to agree that there are transphobic posts on here...ive said it loads

But im not being told that no one reports transphobic posts when they are on FWR

Nup...not happening

The whole ‘we see you’ and ‘TRA/Man/handmaiden’ shit that’s thrown around really does make the GC argument appear weak and delusional.
The fact that you can’t accept that anyone could possibly disagree with you unless they’re a man or activist, shows what an echo chamber you’re all discussing these views in.

I bet most of you with ‘extreme’ views aren’t expressing them publically because when you’re not anonymous and the people you’re speaking to have names and history’s and you can’t call them a man, you’d realise how extreme and bigoted some of you are.

Yes, like racism, sexism does not depend on which group the person exhibiting it belongs to.

With reference to the original post.

The Guardian published an article on rapist / sexual offender / paedophile Karen White today www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison.

It was a departure from The Guardian's usual style. There were some very disturbing passages:

A government survey has counted 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales, which is likely to be an underestimate. According to MoJ figures released in response to a freedom of information request by the BBC, 60 of them have been convicted of one or more sexual offences.

Frances Crook, the chief executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform, said grave mistakes were made in the White case and the safety of vulnerable women should be paramount.

Crook has previously said: “It is a very toxic debate, but I think prisons have probably been influenced by some of the extreme conversations and have been bullied into making some decisions that have harmed women.

The government is currently carrying out a consultation about reforming the Gender Recognition Act. It has stated that “we are not necessarily proposing self-declaration of gender”, but some groups opposed to the changes fear a process of self-identification could give dangerous men posing as trans women access to vulnerable women, such as those in prisons.

Bless and yawn? By themselves sounds a perfectly ridiculous thing to delete.
Depends context though, surely? If a poster comes on with a different viewpoint and they get patronising "bless" thrown at them or a "yawn" to dismiss them, which is likely, that'd probably be seen as put downs.
Bless and yawn as words aren't nasty but depends how you're using them. Didn;t see the posts but there must have been a reason.

Surely

We see you

Means

We see what you are doing

Doesnt it?

Honest question...

Earlywalker

You're kidding, right? Women have been punched, threatened, doxxed, followed, arrested and threatened with bombs for going public. The CPS have, three times now, thrown out a vexatious prosecution of women who dare to speak out.

Fifteen of their meetings have been shut down to to rampant trans-activism. One woman got verbally abused and attacked in a picket line, a bloody picket line, because someone merely recognised her from a Feminist meeting the week before.

Their names, addresses, photographs of their children and the children's school have been published online.

And yet still they talk, they write, they tweet, they blog, they meet, they lobby.

The bigotry and extremism is not coming from women.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Yes it does. It's not s complicated saying. And once you do see how manipulative certain activists are, we see you appears very appropriate.

And, you know, not in quite the same league as bomb threats.

Its an example of how on FWR only the words bless and yawn were deleted ...however they were intended

But apparently nobody reports transphobic posts on FWR

They are all too fucking busy reporting 'bless'

Nope, it's "code" for we see you as we see that you're a TRA, an MRA, a man with an agenda or whatever. Seen it all before.

All the noise about I see you / men / handmaiden etc is usually 1-2 posts on a long thread.

On FWR, we keep saying we must go high, when they go low
Mostly that's because of morality
It's also because those 1-2 posts will be used the entire thread to say how persecuted a few posters feel

re TRA: I am a women's rights activist, because I post vigorously and support campaigns for women's rights
I don't see it as an insult, but as a badge of pride
Neither do I consider it an insult to someone who does the same for trans rights

That's obviously a difference of opinion there

They are all too fucking busy reporting 'bless

You realise personal attacks aren't allowed on MN either as well as any transphobic posts, right?
They're just as likely to go as well.

@Rufusthebewilderedreindeer it really doesn't look like that to someone coming across it. Frankly it seemed vaguely threatening. Along the lines of "we're watching".

We see through you would maybe have given a different impression

I think it is because, as reported above, some TRAs are very violent
So, I agree in future we should be more cautious there

Nope, it's "code" for we see you as we see that you're a TRA, an MRA, a man with an agenda or whatever. Seen it all before

I think you might have the code wrong

Nope, it's "code" for we see you as we see that you're a TRA, an MRA, a man with an agenda or whatever. Seen it all before.

That's what I've just been talking about, which I don't think you've understood.

It's not about whether you are actually male, it's about being sexist. Usually a man, but not always. Hence you thinking it's only about being a TRA or MRA. It's not. It's about being sexist.

When you're on the feminist board, and someone displays rank sexism, nine times out of ten it is because there are a man. So that's the general direction. But it's the sexism that does it. No one can see what sex a person actually is.

It's another version of chinny reckon.

datan

Oh I absolutely agree there’s been some awful behaviour from TRA, I of course dissaprove of that also and think it’s dispicable what some woman have been subjected to. Violence is never the answer, no matter what someone’s views are.

I know that people are speaking out on the issues, but the nitty gritty bits some write here? I doubt it. I doubt you’d comment publically on a post about a day remembering trans people who have died, to say it’s pointless and more women die.

It’s that sort of attitude I hate on here, the Self ID stuff, changing rooms, guides, prisons etc I’m 100% on board that it cannot happen without thorough checks and certainly not through someone deciding they are a woman that day.

But some views here go way beyond that and it’s all well and good bleating on in denial ‘oh report the trans posts’ when the tone has clearly been lowered to that level some time ago, resulting in woman such as myself no longer getting involved.

All the noise about I see you / men / handmaiden etc is usually 1-2 posts on a long thread.

Yes, because someone says something dissenting and the "we see you" to put them in their place and dismiss them gets wheeled out.
Not everyone will feel up to going against that. I call it out when it happens to me which is why we're still going on about it and discussing what it means.
FWR regulars know what it is and know it's to make people feel crap/dismiss them.

"We see you" sounds immature but playful to me,
However, we should change that to "we see through you", in the interests of good relations

verbeena

Ill have another go at explaining...im obviously not doing it very well

You are inferring that the reason transphobic posts are allowed to stand on the echo chamber that is FWR cos noone reports them...even though i fucking do and so do others....

I am attempting to explain (badly obviously) to any lurkers that loads and loads and loads of posts are reported on FWR cos even dumb stupid vaguely snide posts that no one else would ever report on any other board on mumsnet are reported and deleted on FWR

I reckon thats explained enough to any lurkers and i dont want to do the flogging a dead horse bit again so i will leave it there

We see you" sounds immature but playful to me, However, we should change that to "we see through you", in the interests of good relations

You've obviously never been on the receiving end then. Oh and we see through you isn't much better either really.

bigchoc

Thats an excellent idea

If you really get offended by 1-2 "I see you" posts, then most of the Politics and Brexit boards must be traumatic.

I've just called out some very personal attacks on another poster on the Christian bakers' thread
(I usually disagree with the attacked poster on most things)
Those don't reach the MN deletion threshhold - they'd be far aboove the FWR deletion threshhold though !

Rufus the clear ones are easily reported. There's loads that fly under the radar though in a dog whistle type way.