AIBU about nursery calling DD a clever clogs

[2b1c51]

DD is 4. Just missed out on school this time so still at nursery. She is very bright, and yesterday was doing an activity at nursery that was pretty advanced for her age (not going into details about it as don't want to be accused of this being a stealth boast).

Keyworker obviously told us about it at the end of the day, and on the way home we were praising her for it. However, she got quite upset and said that the staff, and then other kids, had called her a clever clogs. She obviously didn't see this as a good thing (I think because of Peppa Pig- when Edmund is called a clever clogs it doesn't really seem a positive thing).

AIBU to talk to nursery about this? As someone who was bullied through school for being clever I might be oversensitive about this, and it did upset DD. It was probably meant well and I could explain to DD that being clever is a positive thing, but at the same time I just feel that 'clever clogs' isn't a nice term and is a bit unprofessional. Please talk sense to me!

Ty autocorrect.

I was called a clever clogs by my childminder. It was always accompanied with a biting sarcastic tone, meant to shut me up and put me in my place. It worked. I've never seen it used as praise and rewarding intelligence seems stupid, much better to reward hard work or something you can improve on.

Teach your clever child that the expression is complimentary

But it's not. It's news to me that it's ever seen as a compliment. It's always been a "bring you down a peg or two" type of expression in my experience. So that would be teaching the child to dismiss her own feelings and ignore being teased by pretending it's a compliment. Which is not a good thing.

I have watched a lot of Peppa Pig over the years and never thought Edmund was talked down to for being clever

He’s clever and self-assured. He calls himself a clever clogs.

Apologies for not coming back sooner- I honestly didn't expect so many responses. I consider myself normally a bit of a thread killer

So the consensus seems to be that I am being unreasonable (or bloody ridiculous according to many!) I am slightly reassured that some posters do see where I was coming from though. A PP said that they felt clever clogs meant 'precocious brat' and, from an adult, that is exactly how I felt about it (although sometimes that might be an accurate description 😁)

Also mentioned was the sense of 'othering'- she has been really unsettled since her friends have left and started school and has struggled to make friends with the younger children. I'm conscious she does stand out being older and brighter (she is bright compared to peers, not just the younger children) and she was upset by the comments.

I've only ever heard the term used negatively, but pleased to see how many people see it as a positive. I didn't think nursery staff were being intentionally unkind, just perhaps thoughtless, but reading everyone else's perspectives I can see that it may not have occurred to them and just be how they praise.

Re Peppa Pig- she doesn't sit in front of Peppa all day, and I only mentioned it as I thought it was likely the only place she had heard the phrase and possibly picked up a negative connotation. She doesn't watch it much but if she does and sees an episode with Edmund then I'll use it as an opportunity to talk about it.

Those questioning my parenting and fearing for my child...thanks, but don't trouble yourself. Most of the time I think I'm a pretty good mum and I have happy, healthy, inquisitive, intelligent DC whom I am really proud of. I haven't projected my neuroses onto her- we talked proudly of her achievements, explained that staff and friends were kindly praising her and moved on. We take every opportunity to make her feel proud of her cleverness- when you ask her what she wants to be when she grows up she says 'everything' and she truly believes she can achieve whatever she wants.

And I realise I might have overthought and overreacted. But at least I had the self awareness to recognise this and seek advice from to you all. So thanks to those who responded constructively.

I agree that clever clogs can have negative connotations.

It's also been shown that it's not helpful to praise children for being clever. Children who did well on a task and were praised for being clever then did less well on a subsequent harder task than children who were told that they had used a good strategy. So maybe you could suggest the preschool praises in a way that encourages growth mindset?

Another one here who thinks that "clever clogs" is not praise, it's a cutting way of saying that you're smug/showing off/"too clever by half"/"too clever for your own good".

I would definitely see it as a negative thing to say, not a positive thing.

OP, YANBU. I would speak to the nursery, explain that your daughter was upset by it and ask them to avoid using it in future. It may well be that the nursery worker intended it kindly, but most of the time it's not meant kindly and it's not a good phrase for them to be using. The bottom line is that your daughter was upset by it and I think that's sufficient reason to ask them not to use it.

Also I have just googled "clever clogs" and the definitions that come up are:

"an intellectual who is ostentatiously and irritatingly knowledgeable."

"British, informal + disapproving. : a person who is clever in a way that is annoying."

YANBU at all. I would ask the nursery to stop using this term. If they're genuinely using it as a term of praise, please get them to google it. It's really not a term of praise.

Beware of projecting your own experiences/insecurities on your child.

Here's another one:

"A term used to mock someone who attempts to appear intelligent."

And another:

"Clever clogs or cleverclogs is an intellectual who is all too keen to flaunt his intelligence to the point of being irritating."

And Wiktionary:

" Somebody who is rather too clever; a smart aleck; sometimes used as an epithet."

Seriously, nursery workers should not be calling kids this.

In fact I'm not finding one single definition which is positive. They're all negative. It's a put-down.

Sorry, I have obviously got overinvested in this, but you have had a lot of people telling you that you're unreasonable when actually you really aren't. Just because a phrase has the word "clever" in it doesn't mean it's a compliment. Your daughter's instincts are right here and so are yours.

Five seconds on Google should be enough to convince the nursery - or anyone else - that "clever clogs" is a really inappropriate thing to say.

I wouldn’t like this op. It smacks of too big for your boots to me.
In this country there is a definite sense that cleverness is something to be sneered at.

The nursery worker might have meant it kindly but I only ever heard it used sarcastically (by my mother) when I was a child - equivalent to 'smart arse'.

You could have a quiet word with the nursery and just reassure your child that the nursery worker meant well..

I've always seen clever-clogs as a bit cutting, though I doubt the nursery worker meant it like that. I think you handled it well, OP, by reassuring your daughter to build resilience. I don't think it would hurt to have a gentle word with the nursery staff about singling her out either.

@2b1c51 - you were being quite reasonable.

I can't understand why people would want to repaint the world for their child. She understood that she was being mocked and it upset her. That's ok, she can use this to learn how to deal with being upset by criticism, thinking of what she might do about it next time and you can speak to nursery about the teacher. Telling her that she misunderstood the situation is knocking her emotional intelligence at a time when she's vulnerable already, which strikes me as very unhelpful for her development.

While the nursery workers may have used the term with a kindly tone of voice as a compliment, it is highly likely the other children took up the cry in a teasing/bullying tone Thus DD’sdistress is understandable.
OP have a word with the nursery staff and give them a list of the definitions given on this thread. The majority of word definitions decline over time eg silly (originally meant pure, innocent, harmless) and I think clever clogs had a less negative connotation when first used and older mumsnutterz may be affected by this.

"Clever clogs" was always used very nastily when I was at school same here. I hated being called it because it was always said nastily. My cousins and aunty said it as well when I passed the 11+. Together with the phrase "you'll be getting too big for your boots now".

Thanks for the advice. We've been having conversations in nursery about making friends (it has been a really unsettling time for DD) so I might mention it as part of those ongoing conversations but not make a big deal of it.

Hi OP. I don’t mean to be rude, but your OP did make me laugh. I respect that you’ve had the humility to take the comments on board though.

You sound as if you have older DC? Then you must know, that what happens at nursery has virtually no bearing on anything as they go through school. Children develop at diffferent times. Please don’t make your child super-sensitive. As to the precise interpretation of “clever clogs” - who cares really? It’s your reaction that matters. A simple, “Well done, don’t worry about it,” would suffice. If you go into nursery or school about every casual comment, people will think yours an utter loon or suffering from some kind of anxiety. I think the staff would be speechless if you went in about such a thing.

I may have been guilty will DS1 of over-sensitivity and I was convinced he was an undiscovered genius at 4 because he was ahead if his peers in various ways. Now, at 15, he’s just a reasonably bright boy. I cringe when I remember what I might have been like and these days, I realise that all that matters is that they’re healthy, sane and as happy as possible! Your DD has a long way to go and it’s never a smooth path. Be proud if her and enjoy the ride!

Like mother like daughter then

@Mandarine I thought my OP smacked of PFB, which she is! 😁

I've never known "clever clogs" to be used in a nice way either.
Me neither.
But even if every single person in the world uses it as a positive phrase, but the OP's DD has only heard it on Peppa Pig and thinks it's negative, then the OP WNBU at all to mention it to nursery in this context "she was a bit upset as she's only heard it that way before - maybe something else next time?"

I have to add to the chorus of people saying that they've never heard it used as a term of praise - whenever I've heard it used it's intended to suggest that the person isn't as clever as they're making out, or that they're being overly prideful of their ability.

I would just say that she got upset by those words - clearly they did upset her, there are plenty of other ways to praise, just ask them to pick other ones.

Clever clogs is a horrible expression.
Definitely have a word. I think it's a learning opportunity for the nursery staff.
They shouldn't ever be labelling the children but instead focus on the deeds done so praising your daughter for completing the puzzle in record time or whatever.

I have watched a lot of Peppa Pig over the years and never thought Edmund was talked down to for being clever confused

This.

But even if every single person in the world uses it as a positive phrase, but the OP's DD has only heard it on Peppa Pig and thinks it's negative, then the OP WNBU at all to mention it to nursery in this context "she was a bit upset as she's only heard it that way before - maybe something else next time

No, what would be better is if OP just told her child "it's not a negative thing, don't be upset, it means you're clever, well done". Rather than trying to stop people using harmless terms because she doesn't want to tell her daughter it's a harmless term.