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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU about nursery calling DD a clever clogs

171 replies

2b1c51 · 10/10/2018 08:46

DD is 4. Just missed out on school this time so still at nursery. She is very bright, and yesterday was doing an activity at nursery that was pretty advanced for her age (not going into details about it as don't want to be accused of this being a stealth boast).

Keyworker obviously told us about it at the end of the day, and on the way home we were praising her for it. However, she got quite upset and said that the staff, and then other kids, had called her a clever clogs. She obviously didn't see this as a good thing (I think because of Peppa Pig- when Edmund is called a clever clogs it doesn't really seem a positive thing).

AIBU to talk to nursery about this? As someone who was bullied through school for being clever I might be oversensitive about this, and it did upset DD. It was probably meant well and I could explain to DD that being clever is a positive thing, but at the same time I just feel that 'clever clogs' isn't a nice term and is a bit unprofessional. Please talk sense to me!

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 10/10/2018 09:55

Where I grew up Clever Clogs, Smartarse, Know It All, Swot were all perjorative, definitely not intended kindly and largely interchangeable. In general they were aimed at putting people in "their place".

When my DC were at school those terms were still perjorative. In some areas those terms also associate with the "not cool to be clever" culture.

So probably YANBU and I'd query it unless it has some local meaning of kind affection which I've never come across!

kierenthecommunity · 10/10/2018 09:55

I always saw it as Edmund being proud to be a clever clogs so not negative at all

However I can also see it as being a sarcastic put down although I’d be surprised if a nursery teacher/pupils meant it that way Smile

weaving5688 · 10/10/2018 09:56

@2b1c51 I've got a sensitive near 8 year old, and I would be really careful in backing her up over casual slights - my DD overreacts to many phrases that are fairly normal.

Nursery staff couldn't possibly have understood that a fairly normal phrase like 'clever cloggs' would be perceived badly by your DD, no intent to hurt was present. I would not be speaking to nursery, I'd be trying to get your DD to understand that the intent was kindness even if that wasn't the result, and to shrug it off.

TBH, there are times when petty meanness is intended that you have to shrug off - don't back up the overreactions. Obviously comfort etc but not by going in.

Doghorsechicken · 10/10/2018 09:56

Clever clogs is an endearing phrase in our house.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 10/10/2018 09:57

It was a dig precisely because they are jealous!

Who is this 'they' who are jealous?

The staff are no jealous of her, they are proud that she is doing so well and accomplished a difficult task.

The children area not jealous of her, she is probably the oldest child there. Why would they be jealous that she could do things they couldn't when she is older than them? They were sharing in the excitement of what she had achieved and were being supportive.

Why are so many people so quick to assume they were being derogatory.

PiggyPoos · 10/10/2018 10:01

Why would anyone's initial thought be that the worker is jealous?? That's madness.

Just think rationally and look at how many people might say it nicely on this thread.

Good grief.

MrsA2015 · 10/10/2018 10:03

Oh ffs if you’re going to let peppa sodding pig dictate how your DD views things then you’re in for a lot more upset

weaving5688 · 10/10/2018 10:04

i don't think people go into nursery work to take kids down a peg or two, or would be anything other than pleased about her progress. It's far, far more unlikely that there was any intent to hurt. And, even if there was, yes, what others have been saying about resilience. You can't fight all their battles for them, especially at nursery and then school they have to learn to resolve the conflicts themselves and that they can.

lottiegarbanzo · 10/10/2018 10:04

Gosh. I think you're right OP (but that the best course of action is to say they mean it nicely, then tell them how she felt about it, rather than focusing on their wording IYSWIM. That allows them to adjust either wording or emphasis and be more aware of how she's reacting to whatever is said).

'Clever Clogs' is a negative, sneery term. It's in the same category as 'show off' and 'know it all'. All phrases usually prefaced by 'you're such a...' or 'don't be such a...'

All part of the deeply embedded British tradition of anti-intellectualism and self-limiting traditions of class that work to prevent people from getting 'ideas above their station'.

But, I can see how clever clogs, unlike those other terms, could be used affectionately.

There is a big trend towards naming actions and behaviours, not labelling people, for very good reasons. Like 'person with X disability'. Likewise, calling a person 'a clever clogs' or 'a stupid boy' is damaging. It presents an idea of natural, immutable status. Whereas, anyone can do a clever thing or do something stupid. It doesn't prevent them from doing something quite different next time.

WhentheRabbitsWentWild · 10/10/2018 10:08

YABU for letting her watch Peppa Pig. Horrible obnoxious little creature that belongs on a barm!!!

Made my day so far

Smile Grin

InertPotato · 10/10/2018 10:10

Likewise, calling a person 'a clever clogs' or 'a stupid boy' is damaging. It presents an idea of natural, immutable status. Whereas, anyone can do a clever thing or do something stupid. It doesn't prevent them from doing something quite different next time.

I always called my kids clever clogs every time they did something - well, clever - and I'm pretty sure it wasn't damaging. I never considered the possibility that their being clever was mutable, though.

Runningishard · 10/10/2018 10:13

Why are so many people so quick to assume they were being derogatory

When I was in Y4 the teacher asked for words that rhymed with caught. I was an advanced reader and put my hand up to say “ought”. Teacher asked me to repeat it as she wasn’t sure what I was saying so I spelled it out. She wrote it on the board and as she did I saw her turn to the TA, roll her eyes and say to me “well aren’t you the clever one”. I was left in no doubt as to her sentiment.

rememberatime · 10/10/2018 10:13

as the parent of a "clever clogs" daughter who is now doing a-levels, this type of stereotyping has been quite damaging to her.

We always took it in good faith when people used phrases like clever clog, brainiac, smarty pants.... we knew they weren't trying to be mean or demeaning about her abilities.

But the effect is that being intelligent was always felt by her to be something to never dispaly too openly - because it leaves you open to being called names (positive or negative).

And if we think about it - these names are often directed at little girls. Boys are called more positive things.

Now, she takes great offence to being described as a clever clogs (which still happens!). She is not. She is an intelligent young woman and deserves to be described as such.

Stop demeaning kids with stupid names and start giving them the praise that fits their abilities.

ElspethTascioni · 10/10/2018 10:14

My 4 year old DD sounds just like yours, and she’s a clever clogs! I think it’s a positive, I was a clever clogs too. Ultimately, you need to teach her to own it, because kids will throw all the clever “jibes” at her over the years and she needs not to be bothered by it - cause ultimately it’s nothing to be ashamed of!

I got the full gambit at school, but mostly boffin and geek, and I never too it as an insult, because even if it was meant that way, I was proud to be one!

lottiegarbanzo · 10/10/2018 10:16

'Being a clever clogs' (aka a show-off) is definitely mutable. You clearly do use the term affectionately. I have only ever heard it used as a put-down.

Labelling children as 'the clever one', 'the stupid one', 'the funny one', especially in an educational setting, is damaging because it perpetuates that behaviour and, an idea of immutability. It limits them, in their own minds and others' estimation.

amicissimma · 10/10/2018 10:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LightTripper · 10/10/2018 10:21

I'm another one surprised at the strong negative reactions of the first few responses. I'm another one who was bullied at school for being different ... clever clogs would never have been seen by me or anybody else in my primary as being a good thing!

Having said that I agree that probably the nursery didn't mean it horribly, and it's good that you have bolstered your DD by telling her it's good to be clever. Sounds like Peppa may need to be retired (easier said than done I guess! So far we've managed to keep DD away from it but not sure how long that can last).

I would also have a word with the nursery so they know she was upset by it: ask if they can tone it down a bit and just say "well done" or something if she does something good, as she was overwhelmed by the attention and found it upsetting to be marked out from her peers in that way. It's just information - they should be pleased to have it. Maybe ask them if they noticed it, and how have they handled that in the past? It can't be the first time a child hasn't enjoyed being centre of attention. Their reaction will probably tell you a lot about whether this is a good setting for your DD longer term.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 10/10/2018 10:25

Absolutely bloody ridiculous!

weaving5688 · 10/10/2018 10:25

yes you are better off assuming most people are decent and well meaning, and if you come across someone who isn't, shrug it off as their problem. Look, surely every reasonably clever person who goes through life will at some point be mocked for it, just as someone who's incredibly good at a sport will at some point face the same. It's just part of being human.

BestZebbie · 10/10/2018 10:29

I agree with the OP - "clever clogs" is absolutely a term used to put someone in their place for showing intelligence that is out-of-line.
I think it was inappropriate.
I also think you'll get nowhere with the complaint as it will be seen as affectionate banter, like calling a child with a sprained ankle "hop-along" (Aldo inappropriate).

prettypossums · 10/10/2018 10:38

ridiculous, just ridiculous

Naty1 · 10/10/2018 10:43

It probably is generally used as a bit of a put down, but unlikely in this case at nursery from the staff.

But i would just be grateful that being the eldest makes it appear that they are brighter than the others. The confidence boost this gives. Compared with the youngest ones of a similar age at yr r where being able to read/write/maths is expected rather than treated as exceptional or really bright.

princesstiasmum · 10/10/2018 10:44

Clever clogs is just an expression of praise, cant believe anyone would get upset about this, explain this to your daughter
Just another example of Political correctness over the top

TrudeauGirl · 10/10/2018 10:44

I also think you'll get nowhere with the complaint as it will be seen as affectionate banter, like calling a child with a sprained ankle "hop-along" (Aldo inappropriate)

This comparison is a little ridiculous. I was called a clever clogs In school and it really didn't damage me.
It's a compliment to a clever child that's all. I think there's a lot of ovethinking and overreacting here to be honest.

PhilomenaButterfly · 10/10/2018 10:47

Clever clogs just means your DD has done something clever. Chill.