To think there is too much stress and importance placed on education?

[CharlotteWebb]

I think education is important - of course it is.

BUT

I work a lot with young people and find that an awful lot of youngsters are suffering more and more with anxiety and all sorts of negative feelings because they feel they under so much stress to excel in their schooling.

As a parent I encourage my children to complete homework and try their best, but if they don't do well in exams, it's a shame but not the end of the world.

I think sometimes it's too easy to put pressure on our youngsters and they feel there are no alternatives?

I know of quite a few adults who are actually not academic at all - left school with no qualifications and are now rather successful either working for themselves or retrained later in life as an adult?

WIBU to think although individuals should do their best, it's also not a massive deal if one doesn't get high grades in their exam?.

The focus of formal education has narrowed and become more target driven. At the point where I left teaching, we were spending about a third of the time wrapped up in assessment cycles at KS3, that's the equivilent of losing a topic per year and a lot less breadth of knowledge across the curriculum by the time you start GCSEs. There are less GCSE or vocational choices than there were 10 years ago. Admittedly some were massively over inflated in comparison with GCSEs (a pass on the Travel and Tourism course was definitely not equivilent to two Cs in History and Geography) but at least there was more diversity for those who struggle with "traditional academic" subjects and are very hard pressed to get the higher GCSE grades.

There is also a lot of stress and mental wall around the fact that a lower pass at GCSE is worth little.

Education is essential to opening opportunities, but I think the system is not providing a useful, valued education to all.

I come from a different cultural background where education is paramount. Me and my four siblings are the children of highly educated but very poor immigrants (when they moved country).

We all achieved straight A*s at GCSE and straight A's at A Level, went onto university and now have escaped poverty through prestigious professions. For me I'll always advocate education as a priority due to my experiences. That said, any pressure we had from our parents to do well at school was during primary school... they even took my two youngest sisters out of school for two years as the school was failing them horribly in the basics and had classed them as special needs. One is now a doctor and other earning 6 figures in her mid 20s as a corporate lawyer. They encouraged, bribed and worked with us to do well while we were in primary school but left us to it in secondary.

The time to act is while the child is very young... If a parent is trying to get the child to enjoy learning and love doing well at school when they are in their teens that's when anxiety and undue pressure can set in I think. Plus it may be too much of an uphill struggle by then.

My view is that the majority of average to above average children can do very well at school with the right approach.... statistically as 1 of 5 we can't all be geniuses !

To me education allows people to have more options and I think its having options which gives people more chances to build the life they want. I agree children should not be under too much pressure to excel - but I do think there is a correlation with if a family values education, there is an increased chance a child will too. I think it starts with reading to them at an early age and encouraging them to read, as well as making sure they do their homework on time and properly. Once you install this in them they have a perception of themselves that they are someone who values education.

Holidaybore - you miss my point. I agree provision for teenagers with mental health problems isn’t good - which is why it’s so important to prevent it happening in the majority of younger children. That is, in part, a parental responsibility, in my book. It certainly isn’t academic achievement that causes the problem, it’s a lack of being taught to manage emotions.

You’ll not stop bipolar developing but you can certainly reduce the whole minefield of anxiety related problems by building coping mechanisms at nursery age. You can certainly change children’s harmful behaviours from an early age and socialise them so they are better accepted - reducing violent behaviours (yes, even in children with SEN who can be naughty too).

I don’t live in a parallel universe at all but am fairly deeply immersed in both health and education worlds.

Cherry - if you read Rach182 point there seem to be some indication that schools fail the special needs children.
And wouldn’t be nice if all parents were very well versed in the art of managing emotions for themselves to offer a role model for their kids and to be there to talk to their kids about their emotional struggles.

In my reality that doesn’t happen very often. The contrary actually... high achieving parents with stressful jobs that don’t have the time for their kids. Depressed and Anxious adults are on the rise... probably because depression and bad mental health are more widely accepted and talked about.

My new GP was surprised that at my age I have never taken medications to help improve my mood? I thought that was strange...

So ... my reality seems quite different from yours . But I quite like yours even though it resembles utopia. Wouldn’t it be nice? But does it happen?

I agree somewhat. I think there can be too much pressure on education as the be all and end all.

I've got a 1st class Oxbridge degree and have never had a job paying more than minimum wage. I'm great at writing essays and taking exams but also had a lot of MH problems from my teens on and struggle socially. I am hopeless in interviews, from a WC background with no contacts and live in a fairly deprived part of the country.

So I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but you can be near the top of the educational achievement "tree" and find yourself in the same job/s as those who left school early with no qualifications. There's more to life, and success, than grades. And pushing for those grades can just cause other problems which cannot be overcome by resitting exams.

The major problem, it seems to me, is not that education is important or unimportant but that we have such a narrow view of what constitutes education in this country.

As usual, I agree with cory. But I also think that we're too narrow about what we think makes a 'good' academic student.

We also have a problem that, in schools, what counts as 'a good student' is very different from what counts as 'a good student' at university, so you end up with students trying their best to do exactly what they have been taught to do, and what's got them there in the first place, and if they can't adapt, they struggle. And you see it every year, and it is such a waste. OTOH, students who were a bit quirky at school are often pushed out before university.

There is absolutely no guarantee that a student who gets D and Es in Maths and English is brilliant at plumbing. It would be really convenient to believe it, but it's not so. It could be that student is being taught Maths and English in a way that fundamentally fails his or her way of thinking.

However, it absolutely is privilege to be able to say education (= qualifications) aren't so important. I really notice talking to my MIL. I don't often agree with her about education, but she has four children, three of whom went to university, out of a context where that is quite unusual. She did a lot to support that. And she will tell me things like 'you must teach DD her ABCs or she won't learn to read' or 'I buy her books so she will be clever'.

A friend of mine, who is a Cambridge lecturer in English and has a small child, told me recently how he went into his son's school, and the teacher said son wasn't at the expected literacy level. 'So I smiled and told her it's ok, I wasn't worried,' he said calmly. And he didn't get patronised or ticked off by the teacher - they talked about what he might do at home and it was fine.

By contrast, my MIL told me when she was 'called in' to school to talk about the only one of her three children who hadn't learned to read before age 4, the teacher looked at her doubtfully and asked 'can you read yourself?' And she can, obviously, but she was so upset she couldn't talk after that.

I know one example is recent and one is from years ago, but I don't think much has actually changed here. I can totally understand my MIL or someone like her feeling that academic achievements are a huge way she demonstrates she's a good and conscientious mum, and I can see why you'd be less wedded to that if you were already secure in your little bubble of 'I'm so educated, me'.

I also agree with cory

We don't educate our children - we teach them to pass exams. The two are not the same thing.

I also feel a bit meh when I see comments such as "I'm now earning a six figure salary". That's great, but wouldn't it be better if we saw statements such as "I got 10 A levels at A* and am now incredibly happy with my life."

Passing exams / education is only seen as a good thing because it is supposed to lead to a life of wealth/six figure salaries. Wouldn't it be great if we also wanted education to lead to a life that was happy and fulfilled.

I'm with you CW, we have always told my daughter 'so long as you've done your best, we're happy'. She's not ever stressed about it, we've always left her to her own devices to ensure she has allowed enough time to revise etc and yet she always exceeded school expectations.

She's fine with accepting failure too, looks on it that she has learnt from the experience & can always try again.

Schools are more like exam factories and it's definitely not the same as learning. I used to struggle to remember stuff once the exams were over, probably because it had negative connotations

provision for teenagers with mental health problems isn’t good - which is why it’s so important to prevent it happening in the majority of younger children. That is, in part, a parental responsibility, in my book. It certainly isn’t academic achievement that causes the problem, it’s a lack of being taught to manage emotions.

If you were an educator or MH practitioner, Pavlova, I don't think you'd get a very positive response from parents once you'd finished telling them that.

which is why it’s so important to prevent it happening in the majority of younger children. That is, in part, a parental responsibility, in my book. It certainly isn’t academic achievement that causes the problem, it’s a lack of being taught to manage emotions.

Wow. Where's your evidence for that? If it were that easy for parents to prevent serious mental health issues in young people, don't you think someone would have noticed by now? (And probably monetised it).

As it is, schools and parents are not very switched on about mental health and often make things worse. The best advice my DD got was from a very young GP, doing the final part of her GP training at our regular GP's practice, who was young enough to remember how shit being 17 can be and signed DD off for the two months before her exams. It probably spared her a hospital admission.

which is why it’s so important to prevent it happening in the majority of younger children. That is, in part, a parental responsibility, in my book. It certainly isn’t academic achievement that causes the problem, it’s a lack of being taught to manage emotions.

Walk up to a parent of a child with MH and tell them that. I dare you.

My DD's depression and social anxiety came about after she was bullied relentlessly for two years in primary school. At one point the entire year group was involved bar two of her friends.

I was at the school daily. I spoke to the local education board about it. I grabbed parents in the playground to show them what their child was doing to mine. I threatened to involve the police. Nothing helped. When I took her out of school I was threatened with courts and fines. No other primary school had space for her.

Tell me what else I could have done?

Surprisingly, she now hates school. She also hates attending any event that might have a lot of her peers in attendance and avoids those situations too.

For her, just getting to school is a massive achievement. If that's all she can manage and she spends the rest of the day in the welfare office reading that's fine with me. She can resit her GCSEs later in life if she wants too but not if she's dead. My priority is keeping her alive and mentally healthy.

As a parent of a child with some serious MH issues right now, suffering frequent and debilitating anxiety, I’m hoping for a calm year 11, with (no more) overnight stays in hospital. As a secondary teacher, I will be happy if he finishes this year in one piece and if he has to take a bit longer to push open the door to the next stage of his educational life, I will live with it. Nothing like an overdose to put the immediate stress of GCSEs into perspective.

Oh and as for it being the parent’s fault for not teaching him to manage his emotions, have some compassion, please. In his case, bereavement has damaged him and his brother, and it’s not easy to fight against depression as well as cancer and losing someone you love.

No. The importance of a great education cannot be emphasized enough especially if the child wishes to go to university and have get a good job afterwards. If they don't, a good education and grades which reflect that will give them many options and opportunities, should they change their mind.

It took me a very long time indeed to truly appreciate the worth in being well educated. I thought I did. I didn't. I went to university and my school grades were OK but I never tried hard at maths because I found it so difficult. I did realise my mistake later and worked to gain a good qualification in it. It was a long hard road but I realised hard work and peserverance paid off. I'm now working on a higher level qualification in the hope it will open more doors for me.

You can turn it around as an adult. I would never tell my child that he will be doomed should he not achieve at school but I would say it's far harder and more expensive as an adult when you may have responsibilities and children- it has been for me! Hundreds of pounds to get a qualification I could have got for free at school! Study hard and make the most of your free education. You may not value it now but you will later.

Agree.
Plenty of children are not that bright but do quite nicely.

But Pavlova makes a point re anxiety. And poor parenting of selling the dream of constant happiness. Agree with that too.

Trying to create/produce a well rounded child, is actually quite hard!!

So, for future reference when DD is huddled in her bed, gasping for breath and begging me not to make her go to school because she thinks she's going to pass out. When I notice fresh scars on her arms and legs as she's rocking back and forth, when she's telling, with alarming sincerity, that she would rather die than face another day at school, I should tell her to pull herself together, manage her emotions better and get her ass to school?

Honestly, after my children’s happiness and health, education is the most important thing and I have always drummed that into them. They know in order to have the life they deserve they need to be well educated.

Frequency, how sad for your daughter. I don’t think I, or anyone else said that. My point is teaching resilience and an ability to deal with the range of emotions from toddlerhood is vital in preventing many anxiety type mental health problems.

The evidence is that parents have a huge part to play in building children’s resilience from birth and throughout childhood. Parenting can and does affect the development of mental health problems and emotional insufficiency. Anxious, over-protective parents who do not allow their children to take risks are more likely to create young people who are not emotionally resilient.

The sooner we accept the evidence as a society and stop feeding the notion of perfect childhood the better. Children learn from cuts and grazes. Children learn from playground arguments. Children learn from teachers who shout sometimes and from being bored. They also learn to cope with exams by doing tests and exams more often not by being ‘protected’ from them.

www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/parenting-resilience-children.pdf

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17571472.2015.1133012

my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/05/parental-influence-on-the-emotional-development-of-children/

The thing is I did all of that for DD. I am not an overprotective parent. Bullying aside, I don't get involved in playground grievances. I told her to make new friends whenever she came to me with X isn't speaking to me blah blah blah. When she stressed about her SATS I told her to get a grip. They're to test the school not her and she really needs to calm down. If she fights with her sister she understood unless there was blood or broken limbs I would not get involved. She had freedom and the space to discover and assert her independence in a safe way.

None of that helped. Well, I guess it helped with her sister. From listening to friends talk about their kids of similar ages mine are much closer and fight much less. It stop her becoming anxious or depressed about school.

I understand your post wasn't directed personally at me but as a parent of a child with mental health issues, I found it really hurtful. We lay enough blame on ourselves as it is. Reading that other people also think it is our fault is not helpful.

Not all children are the same and not all of them are suited to mainstream education for various reasons, yet there are no options for the ones who don't thrive in mainstream education.

DD wants to go to school part time. She is self aware enough to understand if she goes full-time home school she will lose what little social interaction she has with her peers but she simply cannot manage full time school. In her ideal world she would study music, art, history and phycology at school and the rest at home with me. There is no option for her to do this. It's all in or all out.

We also enquired about her doing her core subjects at school and a few others with me, although I can't teach her art or music. She must be at school full time. It's too much for her. She spends 90% of her day sobbing in the welfare office or reading in the library because she can't face class. She misses her favorite classes because she gets herself into such a state. She tells me she feels like there is something heavy sat on her chest and she can't breathe properly. Even on good days that feeling is there but some days she can manage it, some days she can't. That feeling never goes away. It eases on a Friday night when she knows she doesn't have to cope with school and escalates worse than ever on a Sunday night.

If she was allowed to go to school part time she might cope better. Admittedly, she might not cope better. We'll never know because it is not an option available to her. Nor does she have an option to study in a smaller group during the times she physically cannot bring herself to attend class. Nor is the option available to her to study something vocational and do her core GCSEs at home with me. In school or out of school are literally her only options.

Luckily for DD, she has options open to her after school even if she fails all her exams. She wants to be a tattooist. It's something she's wanted for years. My sister's friend has offered her a job as a receptionist/assistant at her tattoo studio when she's sixteen with a view to training her up when she is eighteen. I'm saving for her to attend a tattooing course in London when she turns eighteen but she's not the only student who suffers with anxiety. For other students like DD there are no other options. They will fail school and fall out of education all together. It's so unnecessary.

More needs to be done for students like DD who, in DD's words 'just can't'.

Conversely my other DD is not academic at all. She's a lovely child, beautiful, kind and resilient she's just not traditionally bright no matter how hard she tries. She's brilliant at art and computers but maths and English etc fly over her head. She loves school. She wants to go to Uni in Japan to study animation. She knows she has to work hard to get there and she does. We'll probably look to getting her a tutor in years ten and eleven to help her through her GCSEs so she can realise her dream of studying in Japan.

You sound like a brilliant mum frequency people like to congratulate themselves on being marvellous parents and the fact their kids are fine is entirely down to them.

The reality is as always is not quite so straightforward. Kids are a bit like flowers, all different and all benefit from nurturing. However no amount of nurturing will turn a poppy into a daffodil.

Sorry if that sounds a bit clumsy, both your girls sound great.

Frequency, that sounds so tough. For what it's worth, this sounds completely like the school and not you. I have taught in three schools (state and private) and we would have/do make part time arrangements for students who can't handle full time. Have you looked into options like Interhigh for your DD? I'm sure you will have looked into everything so apologies if that has been suggested before.

I've never heard of interhigh. I was going to pay for her to do iGCSEs for maths, science and English via Oxford if she went home school but she doesn't want to be home schooled full time and her school won't allow her to study there part time. They told me it was impossible for them to arrange.

I might contact the LEA and ask if this is the case, if you say it can be done.
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A boy in my year very tragically died from a paracetamol overdose while studying for A levels. The sad thing was that it was just a cry for help. He didn't realise how dangerous it was.

It was a turning point for me. I really struggled with the academic side of things then when I hadn't before and I realised it could have been any one of us, including me.

I ended up with very mediocre A levels which I was going to get anyway, but made my peace with it because of what had happened to that boy.

I hadn't realised how much this had affected me even at the time until my own child had mh issues due to the pressures of school and the advice of our teachers stuck in my head that 'education IS important but not that important. Life is more important. '