Should my DM be doing more?

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I know the title makes me sound entitled, please read before jumping down my throat!

So my DM is in her early 60’s, in good health and lives locally. She loves her 2 grandchildren and often pops over to see them on my days off. However although we’ve asked her she doesn’t want to pick them up from school one afternoon a week as she likes to be flexible. Fine, I get that and I’m not pushing for it.

My DH gets really annoyed though, he reckons that most GM in her situation help out. Do they?

Visits are always on her terms, we get absolutely no help from her and I’m starting to get frustrated too, both from the lack of help and being stuck between her and DH.

Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit of help from her, or am I being as entitled as the thread heading sounds? I don’t really know why I’m asking as I’m not going to say anything and nothing is going to change but I feel like venting!

I think actually when you decide to have kids, you do take the risk of having grandchildren later too. Just like you dont generally kick your kids out at 16/18, family responsibility goes further than whats legally required, and if it doesnt for you, well noones gonna throw you in jail, but it does make you a bit of a dick

Well said, Branleuse.

I think that life gives you opportunities to demonstrate how much you love the people in your life. Helping with grandchildren is one of them.

Some people put their families first, some people don't. What I do know is that every time my DM is too busy going to a meeting or something, so she can't come to my son's birthday party, grandparents day, etc, I do just feel that she doesn't love me as much as my friends' mums love them.

So PP who think their responsibility to their kids stops BAM! when their kids become parents themselves, you should be aware that your kids will feel less loved than their friends who have parents who still help them. If that doesn't bother you, then go ahead and enjoy your lunches and your art galleries or whatever.

But I'd have to ask you, why did you bother having children, if you didn't want to love and care for them for life?

OP, I think you're getting a rough ride here. I've got two sets of DGC - one live too far away from me for me to do any 'popping in' type of help (but their other GPs live near them and do help) so I see them every six weeks or so when I visit them or their family comes to me for a weekend.
The other GC live a 90 minute drive away - I go to see them every two/three weeks, staying for a couple of days so that I can do school runs etc and help my DD.
If they were ill I'd drop everything and go to look after them - they're my family, I love them, and nothing is as important to me as they are (I'm single, so no DP to think about).
I know that all my DC and DGC love me and look forward to seeing me - just as I do them I have a life of my own, and I enjoy it - but they come first..!

All the people saying that your DM doesn't have to help you are correct - she doesn't - but I'm so sorry that she doesn't; it must hurt like hell and a very unMNetty ((hug)) for you - you sound lovely.

DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy

Totally agree and I'm sorry that your mums actions make you feel that way. Was your mum a good and interested mum in you when you were a child ? I have always found that the really loving grandparents who adore their grandchildren were like that with their own children when they were young. On the other hand if they never really threw themselves into the parenting thing then I think they are unlikely to embrace being a grandparent. Their loss.

Honestly? I think she’s being mean. I had no help with bringing up my dd. Husband was often away, gps lived hundreds of miles away.

Now retired, if my dd needed me to lighten her load I would be on my broomstick as quick as lightening to help her.

Of course it would be reasonable to expect her to help out once a week or fortnight. My kids have mostly amazing grandparents who have given us enormous help for years (big age gap). H’s mother doesn’t want to get involved. Fine but she has no relationship with the kids. She can’t be bothered with them so they can’t be bothered with her.
She’s going to be a lonely old woman.

@Perfectly1mperfect hit the nail on the head there - no, my mum wasn't a massively caring mum. She was fine, but although I wasn't exactly neglected, I wasn't very well looked after, and I did not feel liked by her. My lovely dad made up for it, though, he was a peach.

Sigh ! Another one of those threads where mumsnet seems like some parallel universe where family shouldn't help each other out.

In an ideal world of course it's nice if they do. It's the idea of their being automatically duty-bound to do so that I'm objecting to.

We don't get help, and we didn't have children expecting to have help. The help is lovely if you can get it but GPs are under no forced obligation to help.

In an ideal world of course it's nice if they do. It's the idea of their being automatically duty-bound to do so that I'm objecting to

^^This

I'd be more annoyed with your DH than your DM. He has no right to have any such expectations.

I think it's up to your DM what she does. That she loves her grandchildren is certainly something to be glad about.

I presuming that all the “you had the children, it’s your responsibility and GP don’t have to do anything to help out” would therefore also agree that when said GP become frail or infirmed the same applies?

Well, speaking purely for myself I am co-carer for my elderly/disabled father, and help my mum (his main carer) out a lot, they actually live with myself and DH. So I'm no hypocrite but I do think similar principles apply in both scenarios. There's a difference between a family member offering help of their own free will, and the recipient feeling entitled to it as their 'due'.

I think you sound hurt!

And I would be too in these circumstances. This isn't about the kids really, is it - it's about you. You're asking your mum, who had YOU, to help YOU. And she's saying no, even when (you think) it wouldn't be hard for her to say yes.

If you can't talk to her and say that (and you may well not want to) then I think all you can do is feel the feeling. And perhaps explain to your husband that you are hurt by what your mother is doing, and you'd appreciate his support with your feelings, rather than him rubbing your nose in it!

Well as my mum says, the parental caring relationship with your kids doesn’t end when Your children become adults. A lot of people on mumsnet seem to think it does though. There are a lot of quite cold sounding people when they talk about this topic.

my parents want to help US out, we want to help THEM out. My parents want To be close to their grandkids and the grandchildren want to be close to them. The only way this reciprocal LOVE and CARE type of relationship happens is through regular contact where possible, and contact without the children’s parents being there.

A stuffy visit over tea and cakes with you there too once a month ain’t gonna result in a close bond. The grandparents aren’t going to know what makes those grandkids tick, know who their friends are, what their latest interests are,

My parents helped out where they could but not with regular childcare, just overnight babysitting every few months or emergency childcare . They are closer to my kids than my in-laws are. My in-laws live 20 mins drive away and come over to us maybe once or twice a year. They expect us to go to them even though we both work full time and they are retired and in good health. They haven’t babysat for years, not even when they came on holiday with us this year (we invited them, free hol for them!).

We have gone down to theirs once a week for years for a couple of hours but because DH and I are there too there is minimal activity that just involves the kids and their GP alone so they haven’t build the same bond as has happened with my parents who have enjoyed overnight visits from the kids while DH and I had a night out now and again.

Lately my parents have needed me to help THEM and to be honest, I don’t feel guilty at all about relaxing visits to the in-laws to enable me to do this. I, DH and the kids are closer to my parents because of the time we have spent together.

Just one thing though, I hope people are mindful of other grandkids in the family when they are asking grandparents to do a lot of regular childcare while they work. It’s one thinking asking for one day a week, quite another asking for 3 days from age 1 to 5. my sister wanted my mum and dad to mind her kids 3 days a week before they were school age so they did and I didn’t then feel able to ask them to mind mine too. Even now she minds my sister’s kids during school holidays. I work term time only so that’s when all my free time is but my mum minding my sister’s children then means that I myself have missed out on so much with my mum. On her grandparent-free days she books all her appointments or sees her friends or catches up with shopping and housework. It means I have missed out myself on Lunches and trips out just with her etc. We can only manage it once in a blue moon. I don’t think my sister has even considered that aspect of it all as she can take a day off during term time while her kids are in school and go out with mum if she likes.

My mum has tried very hard to see my kids as much as possible as she loves them but I do feel a bit resentful that she has ended up seeing my sister’s kids much more because of the childcare issue.

This thread makes me glad I live in Spain. DP's family aren't even biological grandparents, but they couldn't do enough for DD and for us. This is the norm here. Some of the comments on here would actually shock them.

I agree, expat. It’s all about the love. Close, family love and bonds. OP recognises that and is hurt that it doesn’t seem to be there for her.

It Seems to be missing in quite a lot of British families. They seem to actively seek the emotional distance. Some grandparents (and future grandparents) seem to want the old fashioned stuffy relationship with their grandchildren where the grown up kids take the children to theirs regularly, almost to “present” them to their GPs in the way children from wealthy families got presented by their nanny or governess to their parents in the evening. Theyre in their nice clothes that the grandparents will approve of, told to be on their best behaviour, smile politely at them, then sit stiffly while the GP ask them how school is, give them some chocolate or pocket money and then happily wave them off again, all happy in the belief that this makes them loving grandparents.

YANBU I can't imagine seeing my child struggle to balance everything and me being free and easy and not wanting to offer to help. Her behaviour is not normal.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable or entitled. Yes she doesn’t have to help, but I think the fact she doesn’t want to when she’s in good health and doesn’t work, is mean. They’re not her kids to rear - not sure why PP keep mentioning that? It’s pretty obvious! But they are her GC and in my opinion and experience (maybe I’m just very very lucky!) GP help out with their GC to help their DC if they can. It takes a village and all that.

I’m sure though her being unwilling to help you out means she doesn’t expect your help when she’s elderly and needs more support OP...?

Families help each other. It’s as simple as that surely?

My DM retired at 60, was in good health, drove and lived ten minutes away. She also refused to do any regular childcare, even one hour once a week. A couple of days in the school hols and emergencies only. It cost us many thousands in childcare over the years, as PIL are an hour away so no help. And never ever a single sleepover either. Ever. I think many grandparents are weighed down doing what they think they should do, but unlike my DM, seem afraid to say no. I haven't decided yet what time of GP I will be.

*type

DH had older sisters who had children fairly young. By the time our DS1 was born they told me they'd done their share of babysitting grandchildren. We received no offers of help. I feel it has affected DC's relationship with them. They're much closer to my parents despite both sets living locally. I look forward to helping out with GC in the future if I'm invited

My PIL deliberately moved 4 hours away from all 3 of their children before any DGC arrived to avoid having to do any childcare. MIL has never worked and had a huge amount of help from her parents when DH and his siblings were growing up. As we are frequently told, every year DH's grandparents would have them for a week so PIL could go away on holiday together. They have never offered to look after DC for so much as a couple of hours so we can go to the cinema together.

They expect us to visit them and for DC to have a relationship with them despite never seeing them and then get jealous that DCs talk about my parents who see them frequently. I think it's sad that they can't remember the help they had and don't want a relationship with their DGCs.

*The people on this thread who don't see it this way will probably be very lonely when they get old.
My mother never babysat or provided childcare for any of her grandchildren. She did not have a lonely old age and was very well taken care of up to her death at 90.

We did not base or love and caring for her on the level of free childcare provided.*

This exactly- you'll only care for your parents if they are useful to you when it comes to childcare? I find that a despicable attitude.

I can understand being disappointed that she doesn't help, but she is entitled to a life and to enjoy her retirement spending it as she pleases. I can understand why she would not want a regular, tying commitment. After all, she's had years of that between raising her children and then working etc. It is not as though she is totally ignoring you or your children- she is trying to build a relationship with your children by popping round and asking to have them at weekends. It would be more upsetting if she made no effort at all, surely?

If you don't want her to have them at weekends simply say that it doesn't suit you. If you don't want her popping in as it doesn't work for you, say so. If you really need her to help, then speak to her about how you feel. I wonder if she is worried that it will start out as "just this once" and turn into "every week, we're really stuck"- whereas if it is weekends, popping in etc then she knows this will not happen.

FWIW those saying that grandparents that don't provide free, regular childcare for their grandchildren will have no relationship with those grandchildren are talking nonsense- might be the case for some but not inevitable. My maternal grandparents lived several hundred miles away from us- and very rurally so not great roads, limited public transport etc- and so clearly were never going to be able to provide regular childcare/school pick ups. The nature of their life/lifestyle meant that actually any sort of short notice help was complicated and frequently not possible. However, my grandmother was one of my favourite people ever- I loved her so much. We only saw my grandparents for a few weeks per year (we would go and stay, sometimes with parents, sometimes without as we go older) but I had a wonderful relationship with them both, grandmother in particular. I am very clear that they loved me, and I them.

My mother's care and support of my grandmother in her final illness, and indeed mine, would never have been dependent on whether they provided regular childcare. I am disgusted by the attitude that if your parents/grandparents don't help out with childcare then as they are of no use to you, you should leave them to struggle in their old age. Do we really only help people if they are of use to us? And do we really only help others in the expectation of "payback" in the future?

DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy

Well I am glad to very oI had a lovely dad.

DoAsYouWouldBeMumBy

Well I am glad to hear you had a lovely dad.