To ask you: All In or All Out?

[Quietrebel]

All seems to indicate that it's now crunch time for the UK. In the style of another active thread, I'd like to ask you all what you'd go for if given a binary choice between No Deal at all with the EU or Remain.
No blame game or mud slinging, just simple polite answers please.

Tonight the Torygraph are reporting the hardline Brexiteer ERG are saying that we should take back control of our borders from the EU by calling for a deal which means EU customs officials to help police our borders.

Its hilarous.

Remain

Btw mummybear your post is hilarious given that it's highly likely Russia interfered with the referendum.

As an outsider from across the pond, please forgive my ignorance but doesn't being in the EU mean that GB relinquishes some of its sovereignty and ability to act unilaterally economically or militarily? Im genuinely asking.
Also, there are already long standing relationships between GB and other nations in Europe why can't the status quo remain until the more subtle and subjective issues are worked out. For example why can't the border/movement of citizens with Ireland have to suddenly change just because of an ideological change? It's just now GB isn't part of the EU but that doesn't mean they aren't a strong, economic friend and partner, right? The EU seems like they are being bitter and petty to GB just because they don't want to part of the Shakey EU.

Remain

Remain.

Pashal 2 - you have no idea what you're talking about - if you're interested, try the main Westministender threads.

Pashal, if your neighbours house looks shaky, would you openly give it a hard kick? Do you think that would give the best possible result to you or them?

Nation state bullshit belongs in the 19th century. In a world where everything countries do inescapably affects all of the others, we need to focus on being citizens of Earth, not citizens of this particular few square miles.

Besides, the EU has given us far more than the Tories ever have.

National State bulls hit belongs in the 19th Century. Not for some of us

Reman

To all those preferring All out/Leave. How do we mitigate the economic impacts? How do we go on to thrive and not just survive? Dislike/hatred of the EU is not enough to give our DC opportunities and economic stability.

Remain , all in , stay in the EU.

If any one of the people who campaigned so vociferously for leaving the EU had come up with a fully formed plan for doing so, I may have been convinced otherwise. They didn't and still haven't. So I would suggest staying until they or someone else does, as the most sensible option.

indistinct I’d also love the answer to that! You won’t get it though. I’ve still not, after 2 years of asking, heard a comprehensive argument to why leaving the EU is a better idea than staying.

So, the definition of a bubble.

www.equalitytrust.org.uk/how-has-inequality-changed

This is interesting for anyone with a spare 5 minutes, lots of nice diagrams

shakey EU comes from the same alt-right dictionary as crooked Hillary and other nonsense inflammatory catchphrases.

Remain

Remain was always remain

But as an employer a no deal brexit could be ace I’m the Tory’s are very keen on cutting corporation tax to help us compete with the offshore tax havens. They keen to cut the rights of workers and get rid of the minimum wage.

How anyone can think we can put two fingers up to the EU our largest trading partner and carry on regardless is nuts.

Also to those on about immigration we’ve always had the ability to restrict parts of free movement we’ve chosen not to.

If we carry on the way we are going we are fucked royally fucked. But at least we’ll have blue passports. My old pre Eu one is black where the fuck has blue come from.

No deal

Pachal {relinquishes some of its sovereignty and ability to act unilaterally economically or militarily?}
You could say that 'sovereignty' over these two issues has been compromised HOWEVER.
The UK army numbers around 82,000, of which many are dotted around the world assisting in 'peacekeeping' together with many other countrie's troops. Who could the UK alone SERIOUSLY go to war with, having so few?
Economically, trade is globalised and through the WTO and various trade 'blocs' (about 42 of them) most is pretty much tied up, so it is not like the 18th century with 'new continents' being opened up to trade or plunder.
You may have the right to walk naked down your high street, but there are many factors that make it a poor idea.

@InfiniteSheldon

You’ve been a consistent advocate of Brexit but surely you have some concerns over No Deal? Likely fairly swift failure of JIT manufacturing (100,000s of jobs), border checks for all importers/exporters, NI border issue and potential for reignition of violence, etc. Even if you consider the problems of the EU insoluble, surely a staged/controlled Brexit via EEA/EFTA+CU is preferable (while still damaging) so that we have time (decades) to reorganise our economy without risking mass unemployment? Is that not the more responsible option?

but doesn't being in the EU mean that GB relinquishes some of its sovereignty and ability to act unilaterally economically or militarily?

The UK pools some aspects of sovereignty with the EU for economic gain and with NATO militarily. The UK Parliament is (and always has been) sovereign.

why can't the status quo remain until the more subtle and subjective issues are worked out

That is why the UK and the EU are negotiating a withdrawal agreement to allow a transition period.

The EU seems like they are being bitter and petty to GB just because they don't want to part of the Shakey EU.

No, the EU is an entity bound by many legal agreements which gives its members various benefits. The UK is trying to cherry pick some of those benefits without being a party to those agreements.

Brexiters who say they want sovereignty, what they actually mean is My tribe will get what we want. They don't mean "All of us who are British citizens" they mean " My type of people." Who don't even have to be British (look at Gisela Stewart or Nigel Farage's wife).

High court judges were labelled "Enemies of the People!" for ruling that Parliament had jurisdiction over the govt. BeLeavers screeching about the judges weren't bothered about genuine sovereignty, they were just upset about their Tribe might Lose.

Brexit is being forced upon me so I feel less not more sovereignty.
ps: I note that "tyranny" is offered as a synonym of "sovereignty."

The UK military has been decimated, we couldn’t go to war even if the politicians wanted it because we don’t have the numbers, the equipment or the vehicles to facilitate it.

Incidentally, if anyone declared war on us we’d be fucked too.

Yes, bloody EU

Without a doubt, remain.