To ask you: All In or All Out?

[Quietrebel]

All seems to indicate that it's now crunch time for the UK. In the style of another active thread, I'd like to ask you all what you'd go for if given a binary choice between No Deal at all with the EU or Remain.
No blame game or mud slinging, just simple polite answers please.

Remain

No deal

When we joined the common market it was only ever supposed to be a trading agreement. The UK was never treated fairly by the eu, despite the efforts of every prime minister, and we are unlikely to get a decent agreement before March. Junker and Tusk have shown us that will continue to treat us like dirt instead of trying to persuade us to stay by making some compromises. Most of the other eu economies are weaker than ours and I still believe it is better to leave in the longer term rather than being tied to poorer countries.

1tisILeClerc wow I best get started then

Language fascinates me, especially how words come in and out of common usage.

Remain

In what way has the EU not treated the UK fairly, bluesmarties?

What would you call all those exceptions and opt-outs we have?

Most of the other eu economies are weaker than ours and I still believe it is better to leave in the longer term rather than being tied to poorer countries.

So you support NI leaving the UK for the same reasons then?

And we should get rid of those scroungers in Wales too?

Best keep Scotland. Its good for nuclear weapons and whiskey.

When we joined the common market it was only ever supposed to be a trading agreement.

No, it was quite clear when the UK joined that the EC was much, much more than just a trading arrangement.

Its good for nuclear weapons and whiskey

Aye dumping nuclear weapons to keep Westminster safe if they ever went wrong!

Whisky, oil, tourism, renewable energy, no fishing though, May sold that out so the last remaining fishing port will close leading to god knows how many job losses.

But hey, we’ll have more powerful vacuum cleaners so you know. Bonus.

My 'take' on the EU and common market is that roughly speaking the common market enabled good trade deals between say France and Germany where France is better known for agriculture and Germany for engineering (I know, just stereotypically).
Political union provided a firm basis to prevent further war, which has been successful for for 70 years, longer than many other periods in history. Of course there are 'winners' and losers, but in the event of war EVERYONE loses.

YeTalkShiteHen
Will that be the new 'McHoover' factory they are talking about?
'Sucks harder than the English government'.

@1tisILeClerc haha fucking brilliant

Keep/Remain/Stay for me. Only 14% of posts have mentioned other choice. Tells us about MN not likely result of another Referendum.

YeTalkShiteHen
Got to find some humour somewhere.
Of course Scotland was the home of many brilliant engineers and scientists.

Sorry OP - longer answer than you wanted I know!

I voted Remain under peer pressure but was and still am conflicted.

Huge numbers of once decently paid jobs in the UK have had their salaries hugely reduced in the last decade, because employers realised they could get people from other EU countries to work for far less.

Many of these jobs are only advertised in those countries and not in the UK, so they can get away with paying less than the minimum wage.

Whenever you hear an employer saying "But British people never apply for the job" THAT is the reason why - it just doesn't pay what it used to and people can't live on the money compared to temporary EU workers.

Kaybush
I think you need to separate the 'semi professional' jobs from unskilled workers.
The UK will not be attracting professionals from the EU or anywhere else by paying peanuts. It will cost a lot to get a 'western' EU professional to come with their family most likely. It has also been shown that they contribute significantly to the UK economy.
The fact that unskilled labour can be paid so badly and yet still be 'attractive' to some of the eastern Europeans is a 'scandal' of the UK government and employers doing, not the EU.
The differences in prosperity across the UK has been 'engineered' by Westminster who are like a kitten at Christmas, watching the shiny baubles' of new expensive offices in London while ignoring so many cities around the country.

kaybush
You raise a good question but I think leave (esp no deal) isn't the right answer.
I know Macron is getting a bit of a bad press here atm but he is fighting for the amendment of the so-called detached workers directive which is what creates unfair competition between EU workers. Btw it's not that wages are different (gross minimum wage has to be paid the same to everyone), it's the national insurance charges which are kept at the level of the workers' country of origin. It means that if it's lower in Romania for ex, employers will end up paying less for those workers because less tax. Guess who's opposed amendments to this at EU level? Yes, the UK.

I don't think leaving will help the country if it means the economy is weakened and workers rights (domestically) eroded.

Guardian article about employment sectors that >= 20% of their workforce is temporary EU workers (? source).

47.6% fruit+veg packing
44.4% meat processing
37.6% fish & seafood processing
35% farm workers
32% translation services

25% creating animal feed
25% baking & starch products production
22% cutting, shaping and finishing stone industries (< 1000 ppl in whole industry, though).
13.5% hotels & catering.
11% manufacturing
[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40753751

UnnecessaryFennell
CornishYarg

Haven't been on this thread for a while.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/perks-end-uk-eu-guy-verhofstadt

Just one article, but this has been well publicised, so I didn't think you could be referring to this.

Not disingenuous at all.

Isn’t it just as though Banksy had designed Brexit?

LEAVE! The DC have to fly the nest one day, no matter how comfy & secure Pater and Mater's abode is. NI/ the GFA can be facilitated if the EU/ and wkd stp father Barney want to be reasonable. Ceuta and Mellila. Treated as part of the EU?! Not in the customs union! Autonomously governed areas in Spain. (although 'appropriated' aka stln from Morroco) this is as contentious as NI & Eire. Please look it up. Rather than more BBC.

?

More as if Mickey Mpuse had designed it than Banksy but you've right, born.

100% remain!

Nannymcfee13, I'd love for my DC to be able to fly the nest and live and work abroad, just as I did. For this and many other reasons, I'm 100% in favour of Remain.

Remain