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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask how to hide a topic

790 replies

LEMtheoriginal · 01/10/2018 22:48

How can i hide a topic? I kniw how to hide threads but would like tohide a topic?

Thanks

OP posts:
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11
AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 11:11

It's exhausting and pointless.

So very true

Elephantinacravat · 03/10/2018 12:04

People are perfectly welcome to come onto FWR and put across coherent arguments as to why transwomen should be included in the definition of woman. They really are. Yes you will get a lot of people arguing against you, but if your argument stands up then that doesn't matter. In fact I would love to see it as I do agree that it can become an echo chamber, and I am always up for seeing alternative views on this.

However, these arguments need to be robust and need to be able to be backed up with something concrete when countered. And when asked specific questions, posters need to be able to answer, ask a question back to counter, come back with another argument. And I just haven't seen that. No one who argues against the posters on FWR can come up with anything robust that stands up when picked apart.

Coming on to a thread and saying 'I believe transwomen are women and anyone who doesn't believe this is transphobic' just doesn't cut the mustard on that forum as it might elsewhere on the Internet.

And Twitter and FB are funny old places - on female dominated threads like The Pool people will get deleted for saying men can't be women because they get reported. On male dominated threads like Vice people will say all sorts of highly offensive things against trans people (I won't repeat them here obviously) and it all stays. I guess it depends who is watching and reporting what.

Like I said, just hide it if it's not your bag. I too would be quite interested to see how many have it hidden actually, but I don't think MN would release that kind of info.

Elephantinacravat · 03/10/2018 12:17

And I would also add that I have myself reported transphobic posts on FWR which have then been deleted.

AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 12:19

It’s totally disingenuous to suggest that all the feminism boards are lacking is someone willing to make a coherent argument in support of trans rights.

For one thing, in that forum you will usually be one voice agains tens and tens of posters all aggressively firing back. It’s impossible to address every argument and comment unless debating on MN is your full time job.

For another, you simply can’t have a debate when the fundamental premise is something your opponent won’t even consider. If I say ‘gender and sex are not the same thing and don’t necessarily correspond’ and a poster responds to say that the only definition of woman they will accept is biologically female, where do you go from there? I can link (and have linked) to academic papers, essays and articles from psychiatrists and doctors and biologists all supporting the idea that gender and sex are distinct, but if all of that is irrelevant to a person who won’t deviate from their belief that there is only sex, you can’t go any further.

Anti-trans posters on the feminism boards aren’t looking to be convinced. If they were, they could do any amount of research and discover these articles and papers for themselves. But what they actually want is to share their view about transgenderism and have a crowd of others agree with them and tell them how right they are, and how wrong any other view is.

If someone like me comes along and says ‘please just consider this research, or think about this possibility’ I’m not going to be met with enquiring minds interested in a proper debate. I know this because I’ve done this, and what I got in return was accusations of being a ‘handmaiden’, of being so desperate to please men I would actively try to hurt women, of being naive and silly and immature, of being a lipstick feminist, of being thick beyond belief or powerfully deluded. A torrent of abuse, much of it sexist and ableist in nature.

I am very, very done with that topic.

Elephantinacravat · 03/10/2018 12:36

For another, you simply can’t have a debate when the fundamental premise is something your opponent won’t even consider. If I say ‘gender and sex are not the same thing and don’t necessarily correspond’ and a poster responds to say that the only definition of woman they will accept is biologically female, where do you go from there? I can link (and have linked) to academic papers, essays and articles from psychiatrists and doctors and biologists all supporting the idea that gender and sex are distinct, but if all of that is irrelevant to a person who won’t deviate from their belief that there is only sex, you can’t go any further.

See, I might consider all that, if it weren't for the fact that all of women's oppression over the millenia has been absolutely nothing to do with their 'gender identity' and absolutely everything to do with their biological sex. So no I won't consider the premise that 'gender' has anything to do with it when it comes to the protection of women's rights.

Anyway, I don't think there is any point derailing this thread with this debate, and from what you have said I guess you won't be returning to FWR but maybe our paths might cross again on this debate somewhere along the line.

Djnoun · 03/10/2018 12:40

@AuntBeastie

So very, very much in agreement with everything you have said.

afrikat · 03/10/2018 12:48

@auntbeastie 100% agree with your points!

AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 12:48

@Djnoun thank you - always makes me happy when you find another like mind on this topic, especially as it’s so rare!

AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 12:48

@afrikat you too!

7Days · 03/10/2018 12:53

You could put all the info on this thread. Give us all something to think about. Genuinely, I would love to see proper counter arguments.
But, I think the situation has gone beyond debating whether Gender is Nature or Nurture. Those arguments haven't been settled in any other area of human psychology, but we are still allowed to debate. Why n o discussion on this? And what are the implications on women and girls?

Those are the questions that interest political types, proponents of free speech and the Women's Rights crew. They have to be allowed to have at it.

AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 12:57

You could put all the info on this thread. Give us all something to think about. Genuinely, I would love to see proper counter arguments.

I could, but I think I’ve been pretty clear in my reasoning as to why I will no longer have this conversation on mumsnet. But everything I have read came from googling, so if you are genuinely interested in finding out more (and not just in forcing me to somehow prove myself) it’s all out there for you to find.

MonteStory · 03/10/2018 12:57

AuntBeastie you’ve put it perfectly. There is no discussion. Sumed up perfectly by the fact that the ‘why do you use mumsnet’ thread is apparently evidence that everyone loves and needs the feminism boards whereas this thread is...what? Doesn’t count as an opinion apparently.

I’ve tried to engage in discussion before and have now given up for all the reasons AuntBeastie gives

You may believe trans women are not women and therefore should access single sex spaces etc etc. I don’t entirely disagree. But this doesn’t give you permission to be offensive and dismissive which is constant on the trans threads. I just don’t get the mindset that says “this man has asked me politely to use she and her. I don’t believe he is a woman therefore I won’t respect this simple request and will instead ridicule him”

WanderinWomb · 03/10/2018 13:04

Finding out the most hidden topics wouldn't tell you what you think it would, is is just a reflection of how popular and active they are.
I'm not TTC at the moment, am not alone there, but I don't bother hiding it because it doesn't come up on active that much.
AIBU is such a busy monster I know a lot like to hide it to see what else goes on here. Thousands hiding AIBU certainly doesn't mean it's not popular.

Elephantinacravat · 03/10/2018 13:20

But this doesn’t give you permission to be offensive and dismissive which is constant on the trans threads. I just don’t get the mindset that says “this man has asked me politely to use she and her. I don’t believe he is a woman therefore I won’t respect this simple request and will instead ridicule him”

MN doesn't allow misgendering as a rule, but there have been cases where it has been allowed, for example, the thread about the sex offender Jacinta Brooks (you can Google for a photo if you want), because it is recognised that it is complete fucking insanity to insist that people refer to Jacinta as 'she'. People are deliberately 'misgendering' on that thread to make a very important point.

I have had an OP edited because I accidentally (and it was accidental, I meant to use their name rather than a pronoun but one slipped through) misgendered a prominent trans activist. I was fine with it, even though I don't believe for a second that that person is a woman.

I am happy to use female pronouns for a trans person if they have been polite and courteous towards women and respectful of women's rights.

Some women are now refusing to take part in what they see as the total delusion that men can become women, this is for many reasons, and so refuse to use female pronouns for any transwoman. I understand where they are coming from too.

But generally MN doesn't allow deliberate misgendering. People usually get around this by using 'they' or the name of the person rather than a pronoun.

peachgreen · 03/10/2018 13:39

Completely agree with @AuntBeastie and @MonteStory. I have concerns about men (and here I mean men, NOT transwomen who I consider to be women) being able to access women's spaces by abusing self ID in its current form. But there's no way I can discuss that on MNet because the fact that I don't have concerns with transwomen accessing women's spaces makes me a "handmaiden" and "woke" and an enemy to women. I do believe there are posters on FWR who would generally agree with my POV but I'm not wading through threads of deliberate misgendering (and yes, using "they" is deliberately misgendering) and blatant transphobia that doesn't quite break the MNet rules in order to find them and have a sensible discussion. I don't have the time or the energy. MNet has fostered an environment in which the extreme views flourish and moderate voices are, if not actively bullied off, at the very least drowned out.

Elephantinacravat · 03/10/2018 13:44

I have concerns about men (and here I mean men, NOT transwomen who I consider to be women) being able to access women's spaces by abusing self ID in its current form. But there's no way I can discuss that on MNet because the fact that I don't have concerns with transwomen accessing women's spaces makes me a "handmaiden" and "woke" and an enemy to women.

If the definition of 'woman' is 'anyone who identifies as a woman' and transwomen are women, then how do you differentiate between transwomen and 'self identifying men'? What makes someone a 'genuine transwoman' to you? Where is the line?

AuntBeastie · 03/10/2018 14:08

I do believe there are posters on FWR who would generally agree with my POV but I'm not wading through threads of deliberate misgendering (and yes, using "they" is deliberately misgendering) and blatant transphobia that doesn't quite break the MNet rules in order to find them and have a sensible discussion. I don't have the time or the energy. MNet has fostered an environment in which the extreme views flourish and moderate voices are, if not actively bullied off, at the very least drowned out.

This is so painfully accurate.

SummerGems · 03/10/2018 14:10

Seriously must we have another thread derailed by the anti trans movement? Isn’t it bad enough that enough people find the topic so intrusive and offensive that they want to know how to hide it?

noeffingidea · 03/10/2018 14:15

Mnet has fostered an enviroment in which the extreme views flourish
Mumsnet is far from extreme compared to some forums.
Anyway, as to the OP, this really isn't worth arguing about. Everyone is free to hide whatever board they want, or even to find another forum if they find this one doesn't suit their needs.

BroomstickOfLove · 03/10/2018 15:13

I think that hiding the Feminism board might be a good idea. I used to spend a lot of time on Mumsnet, but I don't go on much these days, and it's largely because of all the anti-trans stuff.

DioneTheDiabolist · 03/10/2018 15:21

The OP wasn't arguing. She simply asked how to hide a topic because her MH is poor at the moment and it was negatively impacting her enjoyment of the site.

Instead of being helpful or reading and ignoring, FWR regulars decided to have a go/start preaching. I'm glad you have your own corner of the internet, but MNet and feminism is so much more than the FWR echo chamber.

JustBecauseYouAreUniqueDoesNot · 03/10/2018 15:31

I agree with peachgreen and AuntBeastie.

If you do not agree 100% you are met with aggression and insults ("handmaid", "woke", "ignorant", "biased", "TRA"). The arguments are also usually parroted over and over and no matter what you say the end point of the response is always the same, so debate is fruitless.

GirlDownUnder · 03/10/2018 15:43

I’m really happy LEM got the help requested and you’re all right - this is not FWR however I’d still like to send a massive thank you to @Elephantinacravat for everything they’ve said here.

Could be described as a pile on but I’d rather say it’s been a discussion.

Flowers
DioneTheDiabolist · 03/10/2018 15:53

Not a discussion, if an FWR regular wanted a discussion, they could have started one. Instead, they decided to have a go at a long standing Mnetter for having the temerity to not want a load of trans topics on their Active. This was followed by a bit of preaching, a dollop of patronising and the faux innocent "we want to listen to alternative views guv, we really do".Hmm

Samcro · 03/10/2018 16:10

well looks like people have proved why so many people have given up and hidden the topic. another thread hijacked and made to be about Trans....

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