To encourage Ocado shoppers to read this

[Estellesylvia]

If you are an Ocado customer, you should be aware that they consider defining ‘woman’ as an adult human female to be hate speech and not ‘in line with their values’.

They threatened to pull advertising from Primesite unless Primesite took down a billboard with the OED definition of woman on it.

They have received hundreds of complaints from women since, but have refused to apologise.

Just in case you might want to consider not giving your money to a company who consider the word woman to not be in line with their values.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3376466-ocado-boycott-after-support-of-primesight-action

And if you do decide to boycott, tell them why.

JustBecauseYouAreUniqueDoesNot

I have concerns about self ID and the erasure of gender non-conformity but I also have concerns about the motivations of some people behind the gender critical movement.

Haha pull the other one, it has bells on. "the motivations of some people behind the gender critical movement". WTAF does that mean? Do you think they have huge bankrolls behind them - like the drug companies that profit from people who will spend their entire lives on hormones?

Women are allowed to be loud and sweary and shouty and controversial. It doesn't make them extremists. I agree with everything that Posie has said in public and I'm a nice middle class laydee who is kind to animals and little children. But I stand with women when men are trying to shoehorn their way into our spaces and are trying to erase us as a class.

Today 10:57 Earlywalker

FFS the WHOLE POINT is that they didn’t remove the billboard because of the DICTIONARY DEFINITION on it, they removed it because of the EXTREMIST group behind it.

Thank-you, yes, I am aware this is your position.

It is wrong.

Who decided that Posie has lost her right to free speech? Which court made a judgement to that effect?

Just what I said - I think some are anti trans rather than just pro women, and in my view that is harmful rather than helpful to progress as it allows the undecided to ignore the issues. No need to be so aggressive.

*Me and Posie disagree on a few things, but here she has highlighted, once and for all and in plain fucking view, that WOMAN is now hate speech.

100 years on from us winning the vote, after all the hard, back-breaking work braver women than me put in for us to have any semblance of equality, and the word woman is OFFENSIVE.

Fuck this.*

THIS.

Earlywalker would it be ok if I were to put up posters with the definition of women on? Maybe outside the HQs of the political parties? Maybe also outside the BBC's premises (they could do with the reminder)?

I'm not an extremist. I'm an ordinary working wife and mother (kind of the demographic Dr Harrop is so dismissive of). Josephine Public, if you will.

Would that be ok?

I think some are anti trans rather than just pro women

Anti-trans is only pro woman because the TRAs are trying to reduce the concept on 'woman' to whatever a man thinks it is.

And the backlash is now extreme? For women to define themselves is extreme?

Shoving - it wasn’t ‘my position’ it was the position the companies took.

I’m not someone who would sell you a billboard so it doesn’t matter what I’d think, Now that this has come out, I might be thinking it’s there for a goady, gaslighting, alienating reason but personally beforehand I don’t think I’d notice - just like primesight didn’t notice.

People can make their own decisions on the matter without others putting up a definition of a woman - it’s a bit childish really and the poster could’ve been used more wisely to highlight genuine issues with self ID. But that’s just my personal opinion.

I’ve said what I think on the matter, I have nothing further constructive to add. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

It exactly highlights the issues with SELF ID, that women will not be allowed to define themselves, or literally do anything without men deciding whether they can or not.

And that includes a woman not having a say in who is and isn't female.

A man walks into a female toilet and saying he is entitled to be there because he is a woman, and a woman objecting will be called 'extreme' because - well we can see above why. If this isn't stopped now, we lose the right to even call ourselves women: adult human females.

Those that worry about it being 'anti trans' need to ask themselves why that is. Not persecute the ones pointing it out.

If it's not your position, why have you been defending it, Earlywalker?

It's not an eye for an eye. It's women defending their rights from aggressive men who wish to remove them.

You put it brilliantly, Molokonono.

JustBecauseYouAreUniqueDoesNot
...while I agree with the content of the poster I don't object to it being taken down.

It is a real shame that more posters are unable (or unwilling) to make the distinction between the content of the poster and the taking down of the poster.

Estellesylvia
If you are an Ocado customer, you should be aware that they consider defining ‘woman’ as an adult human female to be hate speech and not ‘in line with their values’.

Where has Ocado specifically commented that they consider the definition of woman to be hate speech? I can see no evidence at all for this claim - it appears to be a complete distortion of a comment that was made about the motivation behind the poster.

Earlywalker
the poster could’ve been used more wisely to highlight genuine issues with self ID.

Agreed.

I think some are anti trans rather than just pro women

TRAs frame the issue so that if you are not a slavering bootlicking handmaiden who is willing to throw women under a bus for the sake of being a woke social justice warrior then you are automatically anti-trans.

the poster could’ve been used more wisely to highlight genuine issues with self ID

Lol.

No it was perfect. I was amazed it lasted a week.

To any Ocado senior level marketing types who are reading this and telling themselves that this will all be forgotten within a week, let me assure you that it won’t.

Unless you publicly apologise for your anti-women stance, consider us here on Mumsnet and beyond as your nemesis. I will be regularly reminding the women of the UK’s biggest parenting site of your contempt for women.

And we have long memories on Mumsnet - check out the thread on FWR that have shat all over women the way you have. The tide is very much turning on this and your contempt for women will not be allowed to fade away.

Unless you just do the decent thing and say sorry.

Also, to any Ocado executives reading this - are you aware that your company's score on TrustPilot has taken a hit? Before Ocado waded in, both fists flying, its score 2.5 stars. Now it has a two-star rating. It was ranked 37 out of 47 for supermarkets. Now, it's ranked 38 out of 47. Its 'poor' rating has gone up 1%. That isn't a lot, I agree; but added to drops in other scores, it is something you should be paying attention to.

But go ahead and continue to support Ocado's raging misogynist CEO and see how it impacts profits.

the poster could’ve been used more wisely to highlight genuine issues with self ID

Then feel free to erect your own billboard. Nothing to stop you.

See once women have set up a delivery with a competitor, it's just as easy for them to keep using Sainsbury's or wherever as it is to go back to Ocado. So even if women "forget" (and many of us will not) this incident, they are still likely to shop elsewhere.

What some people are missing here is that it's unlikely such a billboard would ever have been put up, had women been properly consulted about the proposed self-ID legislation in the first place.

It was the (almost) total absence of balanced discussion in media like the BBC and the Guardian, and the deletions and silencing on Twitter and Facebook, along with the determined harassment and shutting down of grassroots meetings of women wishing to discuss the issue, that has led to "stunts" like the billboard, which at least have provoked some coverage of the issue, and allowed more people to find out that the kept-very-quiet Self-ID proposal even exists.

In the face of women being systematically silenced on this issue, calling the billboard 'unnecessary', or put up simply with the intention of offending transwomen, seems to me either ignorant or biased.

(The activist who caused the billboard to be taken down, by the way, subsequently referred to Mumsnet feminists contemptuously as just a bunch of 40ish mothers and housewives. I think that speaks for itself about where the hatred and desire to silence is coming from.)

Quite kesstrel

I entirely agree

Interesting that @MNHQ will leave a post comparing Posie to ISIS but delete my post calling that poster stupid. I appreciate mine was a PA, that was the point, but comparing someone who isn’t here (because you’ve banned her) to a terrorist organisation is hardly in the spirit of MN, is it? I mean, I don’t want her stupid post to be deleted, I’m happy for all to see the depths some will sink to, I’m just point out the inconsistency and hypocrisy.

River I must have missed your PA post to me as I was busy ordering my weekly shop - sorry.

If you read my post in context, rather than twisting it around to fit your agenda to make me look like the hateful one I don’t see any reason there would be to delete it.

But calling it stupid? That’s not very nice now is it, are you calling me stupid because you hate woman? Because I am a woman, and woman are allowed to have opinions you know, we’re allowed to be angry sometimes.

comparing someone who isn’t here (because you’ve banned her) to a terrorist organisation is hardly in the spirit of MN, is it?

Again it is showing how men [who are pressuring MNHQ] are shutting down women. Thus proving Posie's point.

To paraphrase Dworkin, even stupid women are women

It was the (almost) total absence of balanced discussion in media like the BBC and the Guardian, and the deletions and silencing on Twitter and Facebook, along with the determined harassment and shutting down of grassroots meetings of women wishing to discuss the issue, that has led to "stunts" like the billboard, which at least have provoked some coverage of the issue, and allowed more people to find out that the kept-very-quiet Self-ID proposal even exists

Good point that