To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

Just saying people should be tactful

@sportsdirectmug

'Get counselling'
How exactly? It's £50 an hour private and there's a 18 month wait list on NHS!

Actually...you can get private counselling cheaper than that.

People make a lot of assumptions about costs. I've had counsellimg at £25...but I know it's still a lot if you can't afford it.

Counselling doesn't cost minimum £45 per session if you go to a counselling centre that gives concessions for those on low incomes. There are plenty of them.

Are they abundant in small towns and villages so that people can afford to get to them without paying £8 bus fare?

People sometimes buy expensive things. Might be a one off, might be the cheapest thing they own, might have budgeted for months for it, might not even notice the money's gone. It's not uncommon to buy something that not everyone could afford. Am I being dreadfully MN and middle class to suggest that most people have one item that's a bit beyond their usual budget?

There is absolutely nothing wrong or tactless about going into the relevant topic and starting a thread asking people if they like the style or to share their experiences of this brand. Really.

I believe it is not because of what they earn that some posters come out with such rubbish, but because on the whole they can rely on the Bank of Mum and Dad. They have not had to work or struggle for what they have. Ergo everyone should be able to do x,y, z they don’t realise they would be in a completely different financial situation without support.

And even IF you manage to deal with all that, the jobs AREN'T there! Graduates are having almost as much difficulty finding jobs as everyone else!

I get your point that not everyone goes to university (although it is the majority of school leavers now isn’t it?) but in terms of jobs not being there, there are genuinely degrees where there are more jobs on offer than people looking for them. I did computer science and there are ample jobs. Both in the UK and if you prefer elsewhere. If you’re making choices before university it’s also likely to be before you have responsibilities like children or ill spouses to care for (obviously if you have ill parents that is an additional burden). I’m not saying the system doesn’t set people up to make bad choices or blaming the individual. I don’t think most people have any clue what choices to make when they are still basically children and for the most part are being taught by underpaid teachers at school and parents whose career knowledge is at best out of date at home. I just did compsci because I thought it would be fun. I wasn’t thinking about the fact there’s a massive market for computer science graduates. But there is. If someone wanted to be rich and knew that before they accrued any responsibilies or spent their student loans on something I might think more valuable (teaching, nursing, history, transport planning - whatever) they’d be very likely to get good incomes (25-40k starting out 45-80k say once they hit senior level) and have a chance of eye watering incomes if they played their cards right (someone we know just got a job with 93k base salary and 65k in equity - which is astonishing to me - we did not even go to a Russell group university so lauded on here).

If a lot of the barriers for people starting out in life come from not knowing about those opportunities pretending they don’t exist doesn’t actually help anyone.

Sometimes I think it's acceptable to offer an expensive solution. I saw a thread a while ago where OP said she was struggling to find time for herself. No mention of finances. Posters suggest getting a cleaner, OP then announces that she's skint, further posters jump on first posters for assuming OP could afford a cleaner. I don't think the first posters were wrong to suggest getting a cleaner.

But if OP had put in her first post that she was skint or didn't want to pay a cleaner, then posters would be unreasonable to say she should get a cleaner.

This is deeply, deeply classist. It is prejudice. Why is someone who earns more than you less entitled to speak than you?

Oh there is so much I could say about that comment. Did you mean to be so funny. I can't stop laughing.

Classist! Thats hilarous!

You are not oppressed by someone pointing out conversations about £170 pairs of boots might be a little insenstive.

If thats your idea of oppression, fuck me you DO need a serious reality check.

You have no idea if someone else feels oppressed. However if I told you that yes, I feel oppressed - are you going to carry on trying to shut me down?

One of my favourites (not!) is whenever people post about problems with neighbours, etc there are always people who say “well, if you don’t like it, move to a detached house”!

OMG tequilasunset your posts are making my blood boil. What makes you think that people who can't afford 'little luxuries' don't work hard? The people who earn the least generally work the hardest. Who's trying to make you feel bad? Nobody. Falling back on the old "you're just jealous" is lazy, simplistic and blinkered.

To address OP's point, I think people tend to judge by their own standards in all sorts of ways and that includes financially. Some people just have zero imagination, others are in denial because it makes them feel more comfortable. I do sometimes wonder "who are these people?!" when I read threads about holidays etc.

Mind you, I used to think of my single parent household as fairly poor until I used an online tool produced by the Institute of Fiscal Studies. It was designed to show how one compares with the national population in terms of median income. I was shocked to discover that 40% of the population lives on less. That was an eye opener! I suppose some poorer households will have lower costs than we do, but I seriously don't know how people manage.

AynRand's point that being poor is very expensive is so true. I could list dozens of poverty premiums. I won't - but the one I will mention is the fact that unit prices for household fuels paid for by key meters are generally higher than prices for billed customers. Given that it tends to be the poorest and most vulnerable on key meters, that is just scandalous.

@Graphita - the post you quoted me as saying wasn't mine. Don't put words in my mouth.

@DieAntword

Totally.

Agree 100%.

It's not what you know but who you know.

Not all the time but consistently.

I work in an industry as such.

I have been hindered significantly because my husband is our competitor.

"Of course they can - but that doesn’t mean they have to act like everyone has all the disposable income they could ever want."

Tbf pp on this thread have complained about suggestions to buy a £6 bottle of wine, or that they can't afford sanitary protection, or - in one case - that they only have 11p until payday. You wouldn't have to be bragging about 'all the disposable income they could ever want' to upset people in such a precarious financial situation. Or do all posts from now on have to assume that readers only have 11p? Generally speaking, unless someone is being an arse, I'm against censorship.

I was in a very bad place but managed to find £100.00 a fortnight for counselling otherwise I'd have killed myself. It meant living on a meagre amount, but I had no choice.

You have no idea if someone else feels oppressed. However if I told you that yes, I feel oppressed - are you going to carry on trying to shut me down?

Sigh I'm just kinda sick of a parade of highly priviledged individuals being desparate to claim oppression as if its a badge of hardship.

That's a deliberate misunderstanding of the entire concept of oppression in order to exert authority over the geniunely oppressed.

Please do feel free to carry on claiming how hard done by you are, if you someone points out £170 for a pair of boots is more than some earn in a week.

Its a great look, which really does prove the point about lack of self awareness in a truely magically fashion.

And its making my sides hurt.

I posted recently on thread asking what everyone did ‘for a living’. Did it instinctively and without thinking. I do something most people would think of as an elite profession. It became glaringly obvious that majority of replies were from people in employment and doing really great fascinating interesting jobs. A few posted about being happy in what they themselves described as ‘just x I’m afraid’ etc some saying they hated doing ‘crappy x’ but most were glowing happy high level jobs. Thought what an amazing bunch of women. Then thought what a shitty thread really and how divisive and excluding to have to read all of that for many mners. Made me think long and hard about complacency and privelege (?never been able to spell that) here. The whole point isn’t we can’t talk about things but to be mindful of howwe talk about things. Liked rebelogues examples earlier re different approaches.

@LauderSyme when did i say the people who couldn't afford the little luxuries didn't work hard?

Maybe we should ask MN to divide the forum members according to income/financial situation so we can all stick to our own?

This is the most ridiculous tread i have ever read!!

The best one on MN was an arrogant ass of a woman who suggested that the reason people couldn’t afford to pay for private education for their DC is because they simply didn’t work hard enough......

"One of my favourites (not!) is whenever people post about problems with neighbours, etc there are always people who say “well, if you don’t like it, move to a detached house”

Well that is one solution to problem
neighbours. If you can't afford it, just ignore the suggestion or say that moving isn't an option. You must see that the poster responding can't know that moving is unattainable. Bristling at anyone talking about finances healthier than your own is just chip on shoulder behaviour, unless they're being unpleasant about it.

Gloomy Monday - When there are multiple repliesnsaying ‘just move house then’ and the like it would be difficult to just ignore. I think you
Might start to think ‘good god there are a lot here who really don’t even consider that for Most people ‘just moving’ isn’t an option’.

"Then thought what a shitty thread really and how divisive and excluding to have to read all of that for many mners."

But they don't have to read it do they. If you think a thread might upset you, don't read it.

Otherwise don't post about being married in case you upset the singles, don't post about dc incase you upset people who are struggling to conceive, don't post about your degree incase you offend those without qualifications. If they're not intentionally being an arse, there's no problem imo.

Gloomy Monday ok so someone who needs help just won’t read replies. Ok.

Don't be disingenuous heron I was referring to the post that I quoted from, regarding an upsetting thread.

Someone who needs help also needs to understand that there are people on here from all walks of life, and that replies will be varied. Ignore the ones that don't apply or make your circumstances clear.