To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

@Paddley
"Why's it smart to keep your passport up to date if you can't afford to go abroad"

I don't go abroad so dithered over this. Luckily I can afford to keep mine, but the Windrush scandal made me decide to keep it. My folks came from abroad. I do have birth certificate, driving licence etc but just thought, you never know. So I will be renewing my passport but as I say, I can afford it.

However the idea of £170 on a kids pair of boots makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. What the hell do those boots do?! Fly? I'd certainly wouldn't discuss it on MN because I'd consider it grossly insensitive and rather crass to do so.

I wouldn't have any issue with it at all. Some people can afford expensive shoes and want to discuss them before purchasing. That's not offensive.

If it became a matter of "what, you mean some people can't afford these boots? They probably could if they didn't piss it all away", THAT would be offensive. A neutral question about a product that's not in everyone's means? Not an issue.

Have we had “get an au pair” as a childcare solution yet? Because of course everyone has a spare room, and finding an au pair is simple, right?

Why should people who work hard to afford little luxuries be made to feel bad about themselves because someone else can't afford the same?

Because using basic comprehension skills reading an ops post about how skint, fed up, struggling financially they are then suggesting getting a cleaner, having a spa day, having a mini.break, retrain, start a degree, change your job, move house etc is pretty crap and patronising when its never that easy to do any of them. Like it costs nothing to move house! (i just moved and so far its cost me £2k+ and counting) are people really that stupid or just assume everyone is lying and they actually have back up funds/someone to pay it for them?

"Buy a mooncup" because having a piece of plastic rammed up my vagina will fix all my financial problems

Well the reality is if any of the rest of us have a hope in hell of becoming richer we need the rich to spend their money not squirrel it away.

170 quid for boots you say? As it happens I have some boots I could show you and they’re much more chic than those ones, promise!

There was one today or yesterday that made me laugh - Just me and 2 teens what can I do at Xmas that's a bit different

First answer was go on a cruise....ffs. Because people just have Christmas Cruise money lying about

Also there is a difference between can you get a cleaner/learn to drive/go away for a bit or do you have the space for an au pair etc and just saying "get a cleaner,move and what not".

The first is a well meaning suggestion and possibly feasible. It also accepts the possibility that for whatever reason that suggestion might not be suitable.

The second type is what gets people's backs up . Especially when coupled with exasperation that OP is refusing all help,because she's fucking poor/ill/depressed etc and just can't get a bloody au pair in her mouldy,damp ,one bedroom flat(projecting here 😬).

The boots thread was a case of someone else buying the boots and the mum not being happy about them, partly over the cost, mostly over the style. Anyone who read the thread would have seen that the mum didn't spend that amount on footwear for herself or her DD because she didn't have a magic money tree.

But let's not ruin a good story with the facts... :)

If you ask for suggestions or advice on mn, you're going to get it, from people from all walks of life. If a suggestion doesn't suit your budget, ignore it. Unless a poster is being sneery about poverty, no offence is intended and none should be taken imo.

The alternative is a great big long list of things we're not allowed to discuss and an assumption that every poster is posting from a position of extreme poverty.

Yeah people who make out you obviously don’t want help/don’t really want to change things because you don’t accept their totally inappropriate suggestions wind me up no end. Doesn’t matter the reason, money, health, whatever... it’s true some people do just want to wallow in misery before they help themselves but a lot of possible suggestions for any problem are actually wildly inappropriate and it’s worth having a little humility and accepting maybe you don’t know everything and everyone’s problems would not be fixed if people just had the good sense to listen to your nuggets of wisdom.

It's fine to buy them if you want them. To discuss buying something of that value in the presence of others who won't earn that in a week? Less so.

Ask a sales assistant instead. Or a friend who you know is your economic equal. Asking on MN is asking for the assistance of people who couldn't afford them. The fact you don't recognise that is the crux of why it would bother me.

This bothers me. What this is essentially saying is - no-one is to discuss anything that might offend you. So you want all conversation by people who do not earn the same as you to stop? People who are asking the assistance of other people who do in fact have £170 boots - and who are therefore not you - they should shut up? Can you actually recognise that not everyone on here earns the same as you?

This is deeply, deeply classist. It is prejudice. Why is someone who earns more than you less entitled to speak than you?

One post I recall was where a woman on a very low income spoke about wistfully walking through the 'home' section Sainsburys and looking at the pretty household things she could never afford.

Someone literally posted "Sainsburys isn't expensive "

It's like they couldn't compute the idea that anything is expensive if you have no money to buy it with, and that is reality to plenty of people.

You cannot expect people on here who can afford luxury items never to make any mention of them just because there are impoverished people on here. It's a public forum. That's absolutely ridiculous.

If an OP posts a thread asking how to make £5 last until payday, then yes, you could reasonably expect people not to mention their £200 boots in that discussion. You cannot reasonably expect people not to ask about £200 boots in a new thread on Style and Beauty, just because not everyone would be able to afford them.

Hell, should people never mention their holidays on here? I didn't get a holiday this year...

Apply some context.

I'm not well off, but I'm very happy for those who are to spend it on whatever they choose. That's what generates jobs and incomes for others, surely.

@AynRandTheObjectivist nah that's taking it too far and most people aren't talking about that. I stay away from S&B precisely for that reason. Because 1.i have no idea what they're talking about 2.even when i can afford it I'd never spend that much on shoes/bags. To each their own.

But on some threads, especially when it's glaringly obvious that OP is skint it's twattish to suggest expensive suggestions,then gasp in faux naïveté "how can you not afford that?" Or like I've seen "this is not a luxury,it's a necessity ".

I remember a great Dilbert strip where they said that the product is overpriced so their market is rich people. But the product is also useless so their market is stupid people. And then there was a Venn diagram with rich and stupid circles and the little dog is pointing at the intersection with a stick.

I always thought... yeah. That’s what I need to do. Market a product to sell to rich stupid people.

Hmm thinking about it anything marketed to teenagers with disposable income is kind of a good bet.

Why should people who work hard to afford little luxuries be made to feel bad about themselves because someone else can't afford the same?

(Yet) again, that’s not what I and others are saying. The point is about others assuming everyone can afford to do so.

But this is a forum where anyone from any walk of life, any income, any situation can comment.

Unless you title things as "unless you have spending money of x"

You can't knock peoples views can you.

I've been at both ends of the scale. It's hard. Different problems, same problems each end.

If a forum whereby you only want to be seen as reasonable is what you want, maybe this isn't for you.

Retraining for a better paid profession or studying for a degree are very good suggestions for people with no prospects. Yes, it will take time and no, it won't be easy, but it would improve their futures.

🙄ffs, it's not always that people are affraid of the hard work, it's that they CANNOT afford to either give up work to retrain or can't afford childcare to do a part time course.

But on some threads, especially when it's glaringly obvious that OP is skint it's twattish to suggest expensive suggestions,then gasp in faux naïveté "how can you not afford that?" Or like I've seen "this is not a luxury,it's a necessity ".

Oh yes, absolutely. But my initial response was to a poster who said that she'd never discuss a luxury item at all, even though she could afford it, because there are people on MN who can't.

That to me is nuts. Of course you shouldn't get braggy or judgey with an OP who's struggling financially. But there is really nothing morally wrong with starting a thread on S&B (for example) if you are thinking of buying a luxury item and want some opinions first.

I don't think we'd have much discussion on here if we never mentioned anything that might be out of some people's reach.

Your on a forum whereby your choice of boots or whatever might feed a family for a month.

People will have an opinion on that.

Just saying.

And tequilasunset perfectly sums up the issue in one post!!

"Pick the right subject, have a modicum of smarts and at least 4 times as much determination and the jobs are there for the taking" and another one! Seemingly oblivious that it's EXACTLY this attitude op and most of the rest of us are talking about!

I was the first person in my family (inc extended family) to go to university. My parents, aunts and uncles all left school before 16 and went straight into traditional working class jobs. There are still millions of Brits for whom even going to university is way beyond their expectations, not just because of the direct financial costs but because even IF they've been genetically blessed with sufficient intellect, they haven't had access to sufficiently good enough education and support that would enable them to get the right grades at A-level/highers. It's only very recently that it's stopped being the norm to leave school at 16. And that's before you consider issues like disability, other ill health or 'social issues'.

And even IF you manage to deal with all that, the jobs AREN'T there! Graduates are having almost as much difficulty finding jobs as everyone else!

"I actually think the number one thing holding a lot of people back is the piss poor state of career guidance in the state education system." Although on this I agree. Still very narrow minded and don't look at the less traditional career paths - especially for girls

"Why should people who work hard to afford little luxuries be made to feel bad about themselves because someone else can't afford the same?"

A - that's clearly not what we're saying

B - what makes you think you work harder than people on nmw?

Absolutely don't expect better off posters not to post about items they may buy, things they may be considering doing that's within their budget...DO object to such posters, posting such queries in such a way as to imply they're not that well off or that everyone could afford X y Z if they just worked/tried a bit harder!

But this is a forum where anyone from any walk of life, any income, any situation can comment.

Of course they can - but that doesn’t mean they have to act like everyone has all the disposable income they could ever want.

Your on a forum whereby your choice of boots or whatever might feed a family for a month.

People will have an opinion on that.

Just saying.

Just saying what? To some people that is a fraction of what they will spend in a day. They may 'have an opinion' as well. So what?