To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

I've 12 cousins of whom 4 of us have been to uni. 2 of us not until after 21.

Of my friends the numbers are similar, around 1/3 have gone to uni and again several didn't go until at least after 21.

It's certainly not the norm and even those that did go tended to mostly do 'vocational' degrees - teaching & nursing mainly.

For those discussing/interested in the luck element:

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

TequilaSunset - again - I didn't quote you, you're misunderstanding, by saying

"And tequilasunset perfectly sums up the issue in one post!!" I meant your post at 2143 yesterday, which I thought was obvious particularly as u wasn't the only person to criticise it. Although subsequent posts aren't much better. The post I quote directly after that comment is described as "another one" ie not yours. But I'll be sure to include date/time at least in future if not direct quotes. 😉

"Nowadays people start families later in life once they have established their careers and possibly even bought a home." Again, different circles different experiences. I'm 46 my friends and family rarely waited until past 30 to ttc, those that didn't have DC until their 30's or beyond that wasn't by design but because they'd experienced difficulties, several had their first DC before 21. 'Establishing careers' wasn't a big consideration. My dd is 17, her friends older siblings are already ttc/having DC all under 25, few been or wanting to go to uni or even think it's a realistic possibility. We live in what would definitely be described as a deprived area with many social issues. The people working here in jobs that would have required at least an undergraduate degree if not more tend to not be locals, with the possible exception of many of the nurses. There's few jobs and what there are tend to be part time nmw. Also at least an hour (by car not in rush hour) from nearest big city where there's more and better jobs - but also more and better people applying for them and nmw jobs there commuting from here would not be viable due to transport costs (and unreliability - during the bad weather last winter it was a good 5-6 weeks before transport there was properly back to normal).

"even if you don't know anyone who is in poverty personally, how do you avoid ever reading news about this or TV shows which mention this?" I'm guessing deliberately avoiding as I struggle to understand this too. On the food poverty thread there was a poster who claimed to not know this was happening in the uk and definitely hadn't heard of period poverty 🤔 even if they're avoiding tv/papers there's regularly threads on mn on these issues.

"It's a completely alien situation and it is hard for a person who's never been poor to imagine being poor, just as it's hard to imagine being super rich and shelling out 3k on a bag if you're on an average salary." Mentioned this a few times now, John bishop who I am fairly certain would describe himself as socialist, weirdly ended up doing shots with David Cameron at some event, he talked about this on an episode of Last Leg, saying that as he chatted to Cameron he had a sort of 'penny drop' moment when he realised that Cameron and similar had no true comprehension of poverty/struggling because he's simply NEVER experienced it! That it was just so far removed from his experience it was incomprehensible to him. But then that begs the question of WHY do people like Cameron think they know better how to deal with those issues if they've no experience of them?! It's sheer arrogance actually!

Personally I'd have everyone that wanted to be an MP live on jsa equivalent of UC (with all its attendant teething issues!) for 6 months BEFORE trying to become an MP, I suspect this would make a big difference to some of them. I think I recently read another poster commenting on Michael Portillo adjusting his views (slightly) after he was on a tv show "Michael Portillo becomes a 'single mum' " but I believe the effect was short lived as was the experience (I think it was only a week?)

"And I'll be honest, the people I know who are the wealthiest have not worked particularly hard." That's been my experience too, mostly standard 9-5 hours in relatively easy going office jobs, no eve or weekends plus employing cleaners, nannies/au pairs. One I went to school with who's family are extremely wealthy works as some kind of consultant so doesn't even work more than about 8/9 months in the year and regularly jets off on expensive holidays. They're planning on and probably will be able to retire at 50. Largely due to inheritance rather than earnings.

The "is food poverty really a thing?" Thread springs to mind

It's the lack of compassion and tact that really pisses me off. There was a thread from a poster complaining about how cold her house is and she was struggling to afford the bills and a reply was from someone who said she didn't have that problem as her home was lovely and warm with the underfloor heating.

I agree. Even if you can't understand how someone can't afford a £5 thing because you've been priveleged all your life - and fair enough, it is hard to truly understand something you've never faced - you can still be compassionate. It's not hard to say "sorry, that must be shit" rather than "but how can you not afford X? Have you tried cutting out Starbucks?"

(That's my other pet peeve, how any savings article starts with the top tip of "stop buying daily coffee". People trying hard to save don't fucking buy a daily coffee!)

I can't fathom wasting money on buying a daily coffee. It is a top tip for people with money.

My favourite was the person who came on asking why don’t poor people go out and forage for food instead of visiting food banks. What the fuck can you go out and forage for when you live in a hostel in Lewisham with only a microwave to cook with and have a child with sn that only eats certain foods?

I think I've only ever met one person who had such a privileged life that he was completely unaware of some of the social issues mentioned here.

His parents had servants / staff as his father was in the army and he considered that completely normal.

His wife came from a working class background and her adult children had problems with unemployment, substance abuse and relationship breakdown etc., and he still thought they were just feckless despite her pointing out their difficult upbringing in an abusive household, poor education and all the problems associated with living on a huge council estate.

I think as someone up thread said, it's a lack of compassion and interest in others.

The thing is posters come on and offer advice but the hardcore of MN appear and ridicule every every piece of advice.

"I need some extra money"
"Try ironing"
"what i they haven't got an iron"
"what if they are disabled"
"it costs too much in insurance"

I had a thread the other day where someone said I was lucky to be on ESA as it meant I got free dental treatment.

I'd rather be able to afford fucking food love.

That’s strange, I saw that too and it was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that she was stating that it’s a good thing and very fortunate that people on ESA get free dental care. People kept wilfully misinterpreting her point, no matter how many times she reiterated she was saying it’s very fortunate to get free dental treatment NOT fortunate to be in such a position you have to claim ESA.

It was one of the more nasty turns I’ve seen a thread on here take, people were being downright abusive for the sake of it (fortunately MN were on the ball and deleted the worst of it pretty soon after the comments were made but not before the poster had seen and replied to them)

What a pathetic life someone must lead to get something from openly misinterpreting someone’s points to jump all over them and pile onto a poster making a valid point. And I see you’re joining in too, SneakyGremlins

(That's my other pet peeve, how any savings article starts with the top tip of "stop buying daily coffee". People trying hard to save don't fucking buy a daily coffee!)

Don't knock the money-saving tip articles, though - that's precisely how I became the multi-millionaire that I am today.

I didn't start buying the twice-daily coffee and sandwiches that I didn't buy anyway, I left my DS in his state school instead of moving him to Eton and then moving him out again, I kept my 15-year-old car so I didn't even need to downsize the brand new Mercedes convertible that I hadn't yet bought. I saved £4M alone by simply not buying the stately home and grounds that I quite liked the look of on Rightmove.

If I can make my fortune by following the ever-sage advice in the DM and doing nothing at all, so can anybody

You are right, though - most of these articles seem to be designed for middle-class people who fancy a bit of fun tinkering with their balance sheets to make prettier patterns rather than those who genuinely want or desperately need to cut down on their outgoings.

This may be controversial, but I often think the same when they run articles about how to get the best deal on your brand new car. It always makes me think that, if you can afford a brand new car and are happy to pay an extra 20% in VAT just to have a brand new one, saving money is probably more a bit of fun rather than necessity. Nothing wrong with that, if people want to see if they can push their budget a bit further and have some extra money left over for something else, but even a nearly-new pre-registered one (maybe with last year's reg) would save you a packet for pretty much the same thing - never mind considering buying one second-hand that's a few years old for a fraction of the new cost.

There’s a lot of reverse snobbery on here too.

I remember a thread a few years ago where the OP had saved for IVF, and at the last minute was told that her chances of success were actually much, much lower than originally thought and she was advised against going ahead.

She then posted on S&B looking for recommendations of a very nice bag, as she had saved the money but wouldn’t be using it for its intended purpose so wanted to spend some of it on a nice item.

Pretty much 90% of responses were a pile-on of “£1,000 on a bag? That’s the food budget for me and my twelve children for an entire year, it’s disgusting that you’d spend that on a bag”.

If I can make my fortune by following the ever-sage advice in the DM and doing nothing at all, so can anybody

At least we've finally moved on from the articles about "upper middle class mother helps her family back from the financial precipice of not being able to afford the second pony via the medium of cupcakes" that they went through about 2 years of going bonkers publishing.

But Quim, someone richer will buy a Birkin bag. There are always folk with more money than others have. An elderly lady told me it was a lovely surprise to wake up in the morning..... (shrug)

End of disc, we should really start threads, laying bets on whether we can get published

I once posted a request on S&B for help with a wedding outfit and stated very clearly I was on a tight budget of about £50 for the whole outfit

One helpful poster sent a link to a £100 skirt.

I reminded her it was out of my price range as I only had about £50 for the whole outfit.

She told me I should buy it though because it was excellent quality, classic style, would last a lifetime, and could be worn to many events both smart and casual.

Okay but I don't have £100

Well tbh Neshoma ironing is pretty stupid advice as was pointed out on the other thread poor people tend to live in poor areas , whete would they get their clients , on my estate you would be better off advising them to sell "weed" more people would biut that than have their ironing done

And I'll be honest, the people I know who are the wealthiest have not worked particularly hard.
Totally agree with this. I know lots of people who work like demons but never get the rewards they deserve for it. See also intelligence. So many people who are so bright but didn't get the breaks in life less clever and less able people do.

And people just don't get that there is a knock on domino effect of these things. So even if you get to the top of the NHS therapy list, what do you do for childcare while you're there? How do you pay for it, how do you afford to take time off for it when you only get paid for what you do (no decent sick pay)? Well, just 'count yourself lucky' apparently according to many posters here.

I didn't start buying the twice-daily coffee and sandwiches that I didn't buy anyway, I left my DS in his state school instead of moving him to Eton and then moving him out again, I kept my 15-year-old car so I didn't even need to downsize the brand new Mercedes convertible that I hadn't yet bought. I saved £4M alone by simply not buying the stately home and grounds that I quite liked the look of on Rightmove.

Lol!

I got to know a Mum once who similar to what @Roomba describes was offered a free place at what is considered the best girls school in the county and her DF turned it down because they couldn't afford the uniform and he didn't want to tell the school that or take a "charity" uniform that might have been available.

She Instead went to the local comp which was the worst comp in the area (literally a best/worst difference in the schools) The school was so bad they closed it and she left without qualifications and when I met her was working a low skilled NMW job

She spoke about it without bitterness but with a sense of deep sadness at the What Ifs?

The majority of MN Posters can't comprehend being presented with that choice and that there are people who would make that choice out of poverty and embarrassment.

The paint always shocks me. How many people can afford Farrow and Ball paint, or 'wouldn't use anything else, darling!'

We do quite well, we have a nice 4 bed house in the South and I'm a SAHM - I don't have to work because DH earns enough to support us all. We are by no means 'well off' though. Even if I were working full time earning a decent wage like I used to no way would I be able to justify slopping money up the walls like that!

Bloody expensive paint! Madness.

@The paint always shocks me. How many people can afford Farrow and Ball paint, or 'wouldn't use anything else, darling!'

Especially because you can colour-match F&B paint.

My house is painted all F&B colours at Johnstone's prices

YANBU. We're on a site where people post asking for Eton tips, let's not forget.

The diversity on MN is demonstrated perfectly within our own family. My OH and his brother were brought up in a working class house hold where things were tough. Since then due to starting work at 16 and some very lucky opportunities and hard work, BIL now earns around £300k per year, while we survive on £23k. It’s very hard not to be jealous or feel hard done by, but these are the cards we are dealt. We also have children which BIL and SIL don’t. But sometimes they just show they have absolutely no clue how tough things are for us. OH recently had to turn down a promotion because it would include expanding travel costs. BIL just did not understand that although OH would get the £100 for his train ticket returned - we don’t have the £100 to pay out in the first place. He told me OH that he was making a big mistake, but mistake insinuates we had a choice.

We are lucky though, we know we will at some point receive a lot of inheritance from my family, so are pushing on through now knowing it is only temporary. My heart goes out to those who don’t have that safety net coming because life is shit when you can’t see the light st the end of the tunnel.

Hmm perhaps “these are the cards we were dealt” makes it seem like we are just sitting down and accepting this situation. That’s not what I meant and we are doing everything we can to get out of it.

My favourite was the woman who said the food bank donation bin at her local supermarket made her ‘sad’. Not sad that people had to use food banks, you understand. Sad that so many of the donations were Value range. ‘Don’t people who use food banks deserve nice things?’

No concept of the fact that, if you’re using a food bank, you probably have more pressing concerns than whether your tuna is John West or Lo-Cost. Or that people donating are not necessarily dripping in diamonds themselves and can perhaps afford to do so because they’re buying the Value range.