To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

I often am shocked when people post on the 'what job do you do' or what's your household income', that so many mn'ers are £80-100k++.

I'm well off. I never said to the passport poster "just get one" - I thought it was a bloody liberty the school were pressuring him.
The problem here is not wealth or being rich, it's having empathy and not existing within a social bubble or forgetting where you've come from, if that applies to your life.
I have problems in my life that no sum of money can wave a magic wand and fix - mental health issues within the family, lack of time, remoteness from my loved ones, fears for the future.
Actually, as a well off person, I get frustrated by the fact that sometimes some posters are so bloody aggressive with comments like "spoilt brats" about kids, and "bitch" and "entitled" type remarks. I don't put my own posts up often. I don't feel I have a right.

@Graphista It's you that should learn to read better - i didn't write the post you referenced. Perhaps you should check your facts before you get all cocky and start thinking you're clever...stop yourself looking stupid!

I was annoyed and disgusted at the recent "I'm rich, ask me anything" thread. I thought that person was either bored shitless or a tosser.

it's not that surprising that there are many people here on higher incomes. Nowadays people start families later in life once they have established their careers and possibly even bought a home. So two adults in their mid-thirties, say, in professional careers are going to be on a decent wage. Around 20% of people earn £40k or more, given a joint income of £80k.

YANBU, OP. I doubt very much that posters mean anything malicious by it, they just have a very different concept of what 'skint' is and aren't aware of how many/most people live in the UK. 1/4 of adults have no savings at all and many of those in full time work are struggling to put food on the table and pay bills - there's nothing more they can cut back on. I do wonder if some posters must be living in a cave or something though, as even if you don't know anyone who is in poverty personally, how do you avoid ever reading news about this or TV shows which mention this?

I remember a thread from a little while ago where the OP had just had (or was about to have) a baby and, IIRC, also had another young child(ren). She mentioned that, as well as other things, she was finding it very difficult managing with a very small 2-door car.

A lot of responses were offering her the 'simple' advice that she would have been better if she'd bought a 4-door (when she hadn't yet got any children) - got a super sharp electric tin-opener, have you? - and going on to suggest that she'd find it easier if she changed her car for a bigger one.

Most helpful, I'm sure. I assume the OP had never, whilst driving on public roads, noticed the presence of much bigger cars passing by; even if she had, she probably thought 'well, I went to one of the places where you buy cars to get this one that I own now, but I haven't a clue how you'd even start going about obtaining something that's essentially the same but bigger - maybe you have to build them yourself from moon dust and unicorn tears'.

I think lots of people genuinely have grown up in a bubble. For example, everyone in my family went to uni and I went to a posh state grammar school (think it was 6 people in 6 years on Free School Meals, and they had a fucking Equestrian team). In fact, I didn't know Free School Meals even existed until I read about them in the papers, after I left school. The only person in my school on EMA was a girl with a rich dad who pretended his business made no money so she could get it. Everyone in my school went to good unis and now works in London. No-one lives at home, they all comfortably afford rent in London.

That is some people's reality, and people from backgrounds like that would find it hard to initailly understand that someone can't afford the £10 ticket into London, or to bake a cake for MacMillan Coffee Morning because they can't afford the ingredients. It's a completely alien situation and it is hard for a person who's never been poor to imagine being poor, just as it's hard to imagine being super rich and shelling out 3k on a bag if you're on an average salary.

I also think priveleged people don't realise (because how could you?) that your privelege got you where you were. You can be naturally smart, but you got career guidance from your parents, uni was a realistic goal, your parents read to you as a kid and would have paid for a tutor if your grades ever got below A or B.

My SIL's boyfriend came from a council estate and was saying that his brother was really good at maths, but wanted to do a football course. Honestly, I thought "come on, that's not a smart decision - a maths degree is a walk-in to a well-paying job, but a football course at college is a waste of time. Pick maths!". His brother failed all his GCSEs. Not because he's an idiot, but because in his family he had no professional careers to look up to, it wasn't even on the horizon to go to uni, all his mates were going to college, and his family didn't constantly nag him about the importance of education. He wrote it off. But in a different family, he might have studied maths and been an actuary/data analyst/account/stat/trader now earning 100k. It's not just a simple matter of "if you're smart, you'll be successful" - bollocks. I might have been smart, but with a different family picked a totally different degree or path in life which would have made life a lot harder, even if I'd worked 10 hours a day! If I did something like Art or Psychology I definitely wouldn't be in my job now, I'd be working in a coffee shop or as an admin.

TL;DR there are massive class divides in the UK and people don't understand each other.

The magic money tree thing is rife on this site and yes anyone from any walk of life can join but there is a substantial proportion of users who are well off (the liars and bull shitters not withstanding).

There was a thread quite a while ago where the OP suggested putting your household income in an online calculator to see where you are on the poverty-to-rich scale in the UK. So many people were adamant that though they were placed on the upper end of the scale of wealth they absolutely refused to believe it, saying 'well, I don't feel rich!'. Its the completely blinkered understanding about wealth and access to money (wages, access to credit, inheritance expectations) that exasperates me. Earning £50-70k pa is not the norm in the country but this site's users largely portray that it is.

I agree with you OP.
I find some posters' inability to comprehend the actual lack of money that other posters have incredible.
There is one poster in particular who is very vocal that women should all "get better paid jobs" - as though they all grow on trees - and not waste their lives in low paid dead-end jobs. ASide of the fact that her own career requires a certain amount of brain power to start with (which not everyone possesses), you DO have to have luck on your side as well. Opportunities don't come to everyone, and you can't always create them. Some people have brains, money and luck - and some of it is created by them but an awful lot of it isn't, especially the luck aspect!

But because they don't "see" how much of their life is due to actual luck (who they know, who their parents know, who they met when they were in Europe/USA/wherever), they like to ascribe it to "working hard". Sure, they worked hard when the opportunities came their way and fair play to them - but they just don't understand that opportunities do NOT come to everyone.

And yes, it is insensitive at best to offer money-heavy solutions to every poster without at least a small caveat of "if you can afford it".

Ah yes, the thread where people were saying "70k is not that much" and "doesn't go far in London". Jesus wept...!

It’s very like the recent thread on white privilege. People with class privilege often don’t see it and are offended by the idea their wealth is not simply down to brilliance and hard work.

A bit of actual listening with an open mind and without defensiveness would go a long way.

Ah yes, the "get a well paid job" riff. Always from someone whose ability to do their well paid job depends on other women on minimum wage to clean their house and look after their children. Bloody hypocrites.

The absolute worst out of the "but I worked hard to be this rich" brigade is celebs, who go on a show or marry a celeb, then use the fame/money off of that to fund some sinking business (that only makes ANY money because people recognise the famous person's name) that they THEN claim was down to their hard work only and was the reason they got rich. Ugh.

Money on Mumsnet is like childcare on Mumsnet, you simply must have someone you can call on! Er no, I don't know my neighbours, there is no family near by and actually, I don't have spades of friends to call on.

People simply can't grasp the idea that you can literally have no one and nothing and it isn't due to you just not trying hard enough!

The BBC2 series about Redcar has been a real eye opener for me, and I don’t come from a well off background.

There was a girl this week who’d been offered a 90% scholarship to a private school but couldn’t take it up because her family couldn’t afford the travel costs.

And another girl struggling to get a job as an apprentice mechanic. As she eloquently said it’s not like she was trying to be an astronaut or a pop star, her ambitions should have been achieveable.

It must be very hard to be a high earner if you live somewhere like that no matter how clever and hard working you are. There’s a huge amount of other factors at play.

it can really really hurt being told that you MUST get a private assessment for X or Y done and that if the NHS aren't providing you will HAVE to get private therapy or your child is essentially doomed.

This is also pointless when many local authorities now won't accept private diagnoses anyway. So it's even crappier advice.

I did okay in my GCSEs. Not the best by any means but got 9 Cs and above.
Not great, but I had English, maths and science and probably had the intelligence to take it further.
But I lived in a 3 bedroom council house with 5 brothers and sisters younger than me, my DM and her husband (who is extremely controlling and a bit of a drunk and gets aggressive when's he's had a drink). Her previous husband was physically and emotionally abusive to me the whole time they were married but eventually left her for another woman when I was 10. Whereas she quickly got with new husband but was still upset about losing her first husband and drunk alot herself to make herself feel better.
DM had never had a job, honestly i do think the lack of benefits cap on children is partly why she had 6 kids, but also in an attempt to "complete the family" with new husbands.
I shared my small bedroom with 2 others and as the oldest was constantly left baby sitting. There was no where to do homework, no quiet, no space, and honestly, no money.
I moved out at 18 to start afresh with DH, I needed space and room, but to finance that I left education and got a NMW retail job. My mom was mainly pissed off that she was losing the benefits for me because I was moving out and stopping education.
Me staying in sixth form was only encouraged because it meant the benefits wouldn't stop.
I look back and think I have hugely wasted my potential.
I'm 26 but I have no clue how I'm supposed to get back into education when I've got kids to think about.
It's a vicious cycle.
DH works full time in a NMW job and we get by as best we can. He thinks we're super poor, but even I can see we've got it better than some people.
I worked for 8 years before having DS but never progressed further than the lowest employee as all promotions went to managers children, partners and friends.
I worked in the same place for 5 years and I was very good at my job, and they had trained me above my job description but without the pay, someone who had been their 6 months (girlfriend of a manager) got the promotion without interviewing anyone other than her.
Even in low paid jobs it's still who you know and promotion opportunities don't come up as often as you would think.

That’s really tough MsHopey.

My grandfather was an extremely intelligent man who could have gone on to great things academically. He was offered a scholarship at a public school, back in the 1920s. All fees and expenses covered, all he had to do was get there for the start of term and get home at the end. My great grandparents had to turn it down, as no way could they have afforded the transport cost (it was such a tiny amount that it looks ridiculous now that turning it down was even considered, but there were 10 kids to feed on one docker's wages). Instead he went to the local school, left at 14 and had to get a job to help raise his 9 younger sisters. Worked hard all his life but never owned a property, had any savings, went abroad except during the war. It was all out of his reach due to money and lack of formal education.

I thought of him when I read about the Mighty Redcar girl, and thought how little times have changed. Social Mobility is lower than it has been for a century and no one seems to give a toss. Such a waste of talent.

I’m currently reading ( no listening) to one of the Lisa Packard books - this one about Victorian London. Keep thinking we haven’t really come so far in terms of social economic sexual race housing etc. Obviously we have ‘progressed’ but good god the parallels with today’s inequalities which we seem to just live with and accept or be blind to or fail to prioritise are astounding.

Think it’s Picard ?

FighttheBear My parents wanted me to go to a private school on a full scholarship, but could not afford the bus fare. I walked to my state school. We were poor enough that my family used paraffin heaters rather than central heating, as it was much cheaper to run.

My parents were always in low paid jobs. I have read here people talking about of course all parents help their kids find jobs through word of mouth. Nope. I had to apply for jobs, and my parents were able to give zero help in how to do a good CV. I had to learn all that myself.

People take so many things for granted. I guess we all do. I know I did not understand how hard it is to be physically disabled until I became disabled myself.

And I'll be honest, the people I know who are the wealthiest have not worked particularly hard. I am sure some do. But the ones I know have not worked two jobs, and managed without any cleaner or other paid help. And many have retired early on the back of inheritances, while others will continue to work full time well into their late 60's or 70's.

Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm also recalling another thread from a few days ago where the OP was considering living full-time (or as much as is legally allowed) in a static caravan in a desperate attempt to save money.

She stated that they were currently in a debt-management plan, but had already bought said caravan - it was only 2 years old, so hardly a ramshackle cheapo thing - for holidays and weekends. I (and a number of other people) did wonder whether spending tens of thousands on a holiday caravan had been factored in to the debt plan. She said the daily commute to work/school would be 50 minutes each way (in good traffic conditions). The petrol/diesel money on its own, not to mention the wear and tear on the car, would cost enough - let alone the cost of a nearly-new second home when you're already in a lot of debt.