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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that if your thread is about a feminist issue you should post on the feminist board

344 replies

Shallishanti123 · 27/09/2018 12:52

Just that really. Too many feminist board type threads disguised as AIBUs, but really wanting to bash trans or whoever they feel like hating on right now.

Let’s just all be who we are and lead a happy life.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Gileswithachainsaw · 27/09/2018 14:39

They can present how they like. But they still shouldn't be give access to the opposite sexs spaces.

ShotsFired · 27/09/2018 14:41

@Shallishanti123 this is Stefonknee. See that man next to him? He is Stefonknee's "father" (as part of the role play).

Stefonknee likes to sit on his lap while the father has anal sex with him.

To think that if your thread is about a feminist issue you should post on the feminist board
ShotsFired · 27/09/2018 14:42

@Shallishanti123 this is a video of bunch of transgender people and their friends aggressively and threateningly physically blocking two women from going into a meeting room, just because they disagreed with the meeting topic

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/09/2018 14:43

holes show me a way that we can differentiate men who won't commit a crime and only let them in that won't also allow all the rapists and murderers as well?

The o my solution is to keep all men out

Datun · 27/09/2018 14:43

Shallishanti123

This thread might help.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

There is an awful lot to this issue. But at its most basic, the government are considering removing the criteria to legally change sex. Which would make it an administrative exercise.

At the same time, anti women activists and transactivists are deliberately targeting anything 'woman'. Including the very definition of the word.

Hence a billboard saying a woman is an adult human female was taken down as hate speech under pressure from transactivists.

Male rapists have been put in female prisons and sexually attacked the women there.

Girl guides are relentlessly maintaining that boys are girls and therefore do not pose a risk to girls if they sleep in the same tent. Nor should those girls be uncomfortable, or even informed. And neither do the parents need to be informed.

It only needs a smidgen of imagination to contemplate exactly how a law maintaining men are women can be exploited.

It's worse when you're told that challenging it makes you a transphobic bigot spouting hate speech who should shut up.

The law hasn't even been changed yet. The government are consulting because 'women purporting to be feminists' have pushed back.

Nonetheless, rapists are in women's prison, boys are accepted into guides whilst girls who identify as boys are pushed out. What the hell does that teach girls? Femininity maketh a female. It's so regressive it's terrifying.

You cannot talk about women's rights, women's needs, sexism, any of it without being able to define the group you mean.

How does sex discrimination work?

Philip Bunce, a cross dressing man, has just been awarded a woman in business accolade. Women in business.

An award designed to reward and encourage women to overcome structural disadvantage as they attempt to break through the glass ceiling.

Awarded to a man who wears a dress twice a week. Self-confessed transvestite. Except it's called gender fluid.

And I'm not misgendering him, because he doesn't even identify as a woman!

Transactivists who work on behalf of political parties have said openly that if you had a parliament with 50% men and 50% men who identify as women, that will tick the diversity boxes nicely thank you.

It's 100 years since women got the vote. It can be taken away in an instant. And is being.

You already have at least three men, identifying as women, who are holding women's political positions.

ShotsFired · 27/09/2018 14:44

@Shallishanti123 this is a prominent trans person who advocates and encourages violent attacks against ANYONE who says ANYTHING that is not 100% agreement with everything they say.

To think that if your thread is about a feminist issue you should post on the feminist board
GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 27/09/2018 14:44

"See it's nasty comments like this. Why on earth do you feel more sorry for women who are far less likely to be assaulted, commit suicide, suffer discrimination than trans people."

You're very keen on other posters providing evidence, @HolesinTheSoles, can you please provide some evidence for this statement?

BrownPaperTeddy · 27/09/2018 14:44

I agree with you fully Shalli (although would prefer the feminism boards to also be full of actual feminism and no hate speech there). Mumsnet has become an echo chamber for hate, and whilst I'm deeply saddened by it, I'm also bored.

I agree with this and with the OP. Even on seemingly unrelated threads you'll get people popping up to somehow make it about trans women and then an argument commences.

I actually agree with some of the fears regarding self ID but the way that it is being talked about on this site and the abuse and name calling that starts if you dare to disagree with someone is not only starting to put me off MN completely but is really making me disengage from the whole self ID issue which is wrong because it is an important issue but all the other stuff that is going along with it I just cannot agree with.

ShotsFired · 27/09/2018 14:45

@@Shallishanti123 These are multiple death, rape and violence threats against anyone who disagrees with trans people: All on twitter, a publicly available medium. There were little to zero repercussions for these:

terfisaslur.com/

Swissgemma · 27/09/2018 14:45

I feel I am being referred to in passing. I will be honest. I never usually comment on trans issues. I start from a position of acceptance and tolerance. I have been active on the guides thread and will not be drawn into discussion on this thread. Generally, transphobia is questioned. It not on mumsnet where the anti trans agenda jump on people till they give up - why bother arguing with a stranger on the internet. I decided today to stand my ground and repeat my beliefs in the same manner as The anti trans brigade. It went as well as expected.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2018 14:47

I don't get it holes

You are repeating what many on the FWR boards have posted and are discussing. That discussion is what is being closed down by people who espouse trans ideology, loudly and violently in real life a swell as on anonymous boards. You can find a lot of real life evidence of that very recent;y. I don't think anyone has shown any action by feminists that have caused real harm, despite there being many requests for proof otherwise!

Nowhere is there a thread, or possible even a post, that denies trans individuals exist, or that they suffer a great deal of psychological pain. Because all of those GC posters report them and MN deletes them.

Remember some of those posts are by trans individuals!

ShotsFired · 27/09/2018 14:47

@Shallishanti123 And just to finish off (although I could go on for DAYS), this whole section tells lesbian women they are evil transphobes because they do not want to have sex with men who have penises: terfisaslur.com/cotton-ceiling/

Do feel free to review that website though, and come back with any questions.

These are the people we are fighting back against. These are the people who are screaming for access to women and women's private spaces. They want to silence us from discussing this with threats and violence and death and rape. Doesn't that tell you something about who they are?

Thisnamechanger · 27/09/2018 14:48

*So you are commenting on the feminist boards with no knowledge of them? That isn't my fault.

FWR = the part of MN the feminist boards live in*

I use the active threads page and navigate from there.

I commented that the Feminist board is almost all trans issue these days. It is; you agreed. And my opinion is that if it starts taking over all the other sections as well people will start leaving and it'll turn into a forum famous for discussing nothing else. I don't think any of that suggests I am "really happy that men can effectively stop women from talking about anything".

I really like MN but the constant trans threads make me feel like I don't really belong here any more.

Datun · 27/09/2018 14:56

What is clear is that some of you are unable to consider the real suffering endured by these people. By all means look at possible risks but do so in an evidenced based manner and consider everyone's feelings not just your own. Use respectful language.

Gender dysphoria is a real and crippling illness. No one disputes that. There's no doubt about it.

It doesn't mean you've changed sex. There is no science, whatsoever, to suggest you can change sex.

Biological sex is simply a description of reproductive function.

Of the studies that have been done, there is no evidence to support a female brain in a male body. If anything, it points towards homosexuality. Which doesn't account for the fact that 80% of transwomen keep their penis and many are attracted to women.

Quite apart from anything else, we don't segregate on the basis of how people think. Or, more accurately, how they say they think. It's unverifiable and unidentifiable.

It's also nonsense for you to suggest that none of the links that feminists post are any kind of evidence.

They've been posting links for the best part of four or five years.

I have zero hesitation in answering calls for citations. This argument is easy to back up.

However, the reason this is reaching critical mass is because the government are now considering removing gender dysphoria as a criteria for being trans.

Hence all the predators, cross dressers, fetishists, chancers and paedophiles jumping the gun.

And hence women determined to wrench back the meaning of the word woman as adult human female. Not a feeling in a man's head.

It doesn't mean people don't understand gender dysphoria and don't have sympathy.
But women are now hardened. It's too late. Transactivists are 100% to blame for this. Threats of rape, doxxing, actual punching and bomb threats really do not engender empathy.

Take it up with them.

SpannerInTheWorks · 27/09/2018 14:58

To answer your question as it was originally put, YABU. Feminism isn't a niche interest. It's a movement fighting for the rights, safety and well being of all women and girls, and if feminist issues appear on other boards, be it AIBU or books or whatever, then that seems only natural.

I do get why people get scared when they see some of the anger and frustration on the threads about feminism vs trans rights. It goes against what we've been taught and indeed what most of our moral compasses guide us towards: be kind, be inclusive, be tolerant.

When I first started to actually read the "trans posts", I can't lie, I found them shocking. Why were people being so nasty? Do they actually hate trans people?

The more I have read, though, the more I respect and am grateful to those women. They're not hateful and they're certainly not anti-trans - there are transwomen posting on the feminism threads and many of the most critical voices are people with trans friends or relatives who are concerned about some of the things that are being done under the trans umbrella.

Personally I don't have strong feelings about toilets or safe spaces - maybe because I am lucky never to have been a victim of male violence.

But working in a male dominated industry, it makes me furious to see men (not even transwomen but men, men who wear dresses occasionally!) winning awards for women in business. It makes me mad to see campaigns to get more women into politics saying that it is OK to have a parliament that is 50% men and 50% transwomen because that represents equality.

It makes me mad to be told in a feminist group on Facebook to shut up because my opinion as a "cis" person is less valid - in other words, shut up and let the people with XY chromosomes speak, just the same as you get everywhere else out in the world.

I absolutely don't hate trans people. LIke nearly everyone I have spoken to on Mumsnet and beyond, I will stand shoulder to shoulder with them in fighting for their right to be safe and to live their lives without prejudice. But the "transwomen are women" agenda is taking away some of the very precious things that our mothers and grandmothers fought so hard for us to have.

You should be able to say "transwomen are just as valuable as women but they are not women" without it counting as hate speech.

Datun · 27/09/2018 15:00

You should be able to say "transwomen are just as valuable as women but they are not women" without it counting as hate speech.

I don't know about anyone else, but this ^^ really doesn't sound extreme, or hateful.

And if we could say that, both culturally and legally, and be listened to, we could all pack up and go home.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2018 15:04

Yep! And the FWR boards would be a lot quieter, leaving us all more time to discuss Christmas sprouts!

Flooffloof · 27/09/2018 15:05

Sorry for this ugly thought, don't hate on me.
Stefonkee of the trans age fame, could join brownies right now and then move up to guides.

Do you really want that to happen?

Thisnamechanger · 27/09/2018 15:11

Yep! And the FWR boards would be a lot quieter, leaving us all more time to discuss Christmas sprouts!

I don't really understand.

user838383 · 27/09/2018 15:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WomanAKAAdultHumanFemale · 27/09/2018 15:14

Nope. AIBU is an umbrella thread for complaining about anything and everything.

WomanAKAAdultHumanFemale · 27/09/2018 15:16

It went as well as expected.

Yes. That is true. Your posts lacked any semblance of reality. Nul points.

47Ag · 27/09/2018 15:18

You, feminists! Get in your corner!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2018 15:20

I don't really understand A joke, based on a couple of previous posts upthread!

explodingkitten · 27/09/2018 15:24

Realistically, long term the only rights that transwomen will get to keep are the ones that don't create a safeguarding risk. Otherwise, the women will stay away after a couple of assaults happened. Which is not what swimming pools etc. want to happen.

I don't get why the trans movement cannot understand this.