To think that if your thread is about a feminist issue you should post on the feminist board

[Shallishanti123]

Just that really. Too many feminist board type threads disguised as AIBUs, but really wanting to bash trans or whoever they feel like hating on right now.

Let’s just all be who we are and lead a happy life.

YABU. Issues which affect women are feminist issues by definition.

I also need to apologise to the OP. I hadn't RTFT before I posted and it was another goady " why can't we all just be kind" thread. 😳

It's been refreshing to see someone actually listen to all the information offered.

The whole thing still makes me a bit depressed OP. The fact that it's got so far before most people became even slightly aware. I've only been fyeeding about it a few months myself.

I know it's too late now. It just doesn't seem all that long since we (meaning feminists, LGB and transsexuals) were all pretty much on the same side. Before the TRAs started with all the TWAW stuff. But I guess maybe there was nothing to discuss until there were TRAs and TWAW and people deciding that women's things have to be everyone's things..

Their use of the word "appropriation". We've appropriated womanhood. I actually feel speechless at the wrongness of the thinking.

Not true. They were banned for repeatedly and persistently breaking the talk guidelines despite lots of warnings and patience from MNHQ. And who did the reporting? And my point, in full, was that some of those women are chased from platform to platform and out into real life, by those artists you are defending. Why is threatening women with violence art, by the way? Is it somehow amusing, subversive, cynical... what?

But yes, wider research is always a good thing. And the FWR boards have a lot of links in some of the threads, specifically to help people find good, unbiased, factual information.

Thank you for the invitation but I respectfully decline. Honestly, the name calling and abuse that I've witnessed there really closed my mind to this subject which is very sad because there are some aspects of it that do concern me greatly

Same, I've engaged in the past (whilst reading up on both sides and genuinely wanting to learn more on the subject) and the name calling/abuse that goes on if you question has completely turned me off.
Say something they don't agree with then you're automatically a man, a TRA, a sealion or whatever.
There's fanatical and extremist views on there and it's why the board gets hidden by some.

A man I went to s hook with is now living as a woman and awaiting surgery. He is not a rapist. He's friends with alot of men who are transitioning to women and they are all currently gay men so do not see the female body as anything sexual which is a fact for most men that are transitioning. Same with women who are transitioning to men. Mist of them are lesbian women.

Part of the transition is to live your life as the opposite sex. They will not perform any surgery until you have lived as the opposite sex for a period of time. So this means trans women using female toilets etc and trans men using mens toilets etc. Is part of the process.

I don't agree with children spaces being used like this as they are under age anyway so not technically old enough to make any decisions like that.

My friend is now 26 and has been living as a woman since we left school. He looks very feminine and hasn't had any surgery yet. If I walked passed him in the street I wouldn't know any different. Very slim built with a slim face etc. Very feminine features. He's only 5 ft 7 too. Was never very manly.

My point is is that not every trans woman is a man wanting to perv on or rape women. Most trans people are going through a process that is mentally delibetating and very hard. They meet alot of prejudice too.

I agree that some men for example those in prison may be doing it just to gain access to women and that is wrong but the majority aren't and they shouldn't be hated for going through a process that they have to go through to get the treatment they want.

I don't think anyone can judge it until they've been through it themselves.

Name calling and abuse? Not from the women on there. Not that I can recall off hand.Here on AIBU - loads of it! Yet you venture here! I call poppycock!

There seriously is.Maybe you don't see it as maybe you're part of the problem, or maybe you agree with the majority?
You won't see it then. Say something against the collective viewpoint and you'll soon get rounded on and see the abuse.

The tweet somebody posted upthread I don't get why cisgendered feel the need to call themselves women. Stop appropriating the term from transwomen. Just be a proud cisgendered, no other labels required.

Poster says and I quote Meet "Rosa", the guy who thinks he has taken the word woman from us. He says HE is a woman, and we are not woman

I'm reading that completely differently, as where is she saying that we aren't women? Just instead of saying why say as a biological woman, "that's my label and you're not having it!" Instead of taking away and excluding, why not say there's room for all women, transgender and biological? She never said we're not women at all.

I'm reading that completely differently, as where is she saying that we aren't women?

You understand what the word "appropriating" means?

She never said we're not women at all.

Rosa did. And is male. Not a she. There's only one type of woman, and that's an adult human female. Not incel male "lesbians". How silly.

He's friends with alot of men who are transitioning to women and they are all currently gay men so do not see the female body as anything sexual which is a fact for most men that are transitioning.

a) most MTFs are straight

b) if by "transition" you mean have surgery, most of them don't.

My point is is that not every trans woman is a man wanting to perv on or rape women.

We know. We also know that most men don't want to rape us, assault us or sit wanking whilst watching us naked.

We still don't want any men at all in our changing rooms, etc though - do we? If you read this thread and others, you'll see that self-id and the trans rights movement - which encompasses an extremely wide range of people, including men who don't want to look like women at all, do nothing to change their bodies, but claim they're women and have (often) predilections for paraphilias that you seriously do not want in your women's spaces - will allow any man who wants to get in to enter and stay in your women's spaces.

That is our point.

My point is is that not every trans woman is a man wanting to perv on or rape women. Most trans people are going through a process that is mentally delibetating and very hard. They meet alot of prejudice too.

Everyone understands this.

The problem is you can't tell the difference. When being trans is subjective and relies entirely on the person saying it.

This conversation has been going on for years. Wondering whether there can be some kind of grading of 'authenticity'.

Currently you have Tara Hudson saying authenticity is based on longevity and possession of a penis is irrelevant, India Willoughby saying it's based on gender dysphoria, Debbie Hayton saying it's based on surgery, Pips Bunce saying it's based on clothes, and any number of autogynephiles saying it's based on becoming what you love and are aroused by.

The reality is you have a whole cohort of men deciding that the conditions they meet, and they alone, constitutes womanhood.

And then women are expected to cede all their rights to whoever meets these arbitrary conditions.

It's something that I find completely unacceptable.

No one cares if someone wants to present as a female and have a female name. It's all the rest that goes with it.

I think the penis beaker story was fake anyway.

Datun

*The reality is you have a whole cohort of men deciding that the conditions they meet, and they alone, constitutes womanhood.

And then women are expected to cede all their rights to whoever meets these arbitrary conditions.

It's something that I find completely unacceptable*

This!

I find it equally gobsmacking and depressing when someone can see so many detailed and thoughtfully written posts articulating the exact issues about TRAs and the dangers posed, then still come along and plop down a comment which says "yeah but Not All Men and anyway all trans are nice people who suffer years of distress and dangerous surgery..."

It's like wilful blindness.

Verbeena the first sentence is how they think we should refer to ourselves. Just "cisgendered" (as in "I don't get why cisgendered feel the need"). Not even allowed to use the word woman because it's "appropriated", ie. stolen, from transwomen.

This is crazy. The point is that women, as a class, have rights in law based on biological difference and resulting historical discrimination. These are rights that are eroded if transwomen are classed as "women", as they don't share these biological disadvantages. They may suffer other forms of discrimination - just as ethnic minorities or people who are disabled do. But that doesn't mean they are the same protected class with the same legal rights.

The point is that women, as a class, have rights in law based on biological difference and resulting historical discrimination. These are rights that are eroded if transwomen are classed as "women", as they don't share these biological disadvantages. They may suffer other forms of discrimination - just as ethnic minorities or people who are disabled do. But that doesn't mean they are the same protected class with the same legal rights.

100% what she said. If you extend women's rights to people who are not women, then women's rights become both pointless and useless.

Transwomen have different needs and face different challenges. They are protected under the Equalities Act and deserve human rights, dignity and respect just as much as biological women do. But to pretend that transwomen and biological women are the same does neither group any favours in the long run.

Hi all, I've started telling people about these issues now. They're pretty shocked too. I've just said to google it.

Thinking back on some of the child abuse cases I worked on there was a couple of offenders who started to say they were women after being caught. I think maybe it's related.