To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

Oh ffs. Guides is for girls, it is not there for boys to infiltrate, even if the do identify temporarily or permanently as a girl,they are still a boy. Guides is there at a time girls bodies are changing, hormones are running wild and lots of confusion, you need support of those going though the same thing. No how much a boy wants to be a girl they can never truly relate to what the girls will be going though.Women need women only spaces.

I have repeated said no forced sharing of sleep space and facilities. Repeatedly.

Why do your definitions hold? They may not, but they are mine. All I said was we seem to be using different definition, making communication difficult.

It is the Gender one that is the issue.

My definition does have room for people who wish to be anywhere of the masculine - feminine scale. I don't care and probably don't conform to gender concepts of feminine myself. But I don't think a feminine man is a woman, or a masculine woman is man!

And again, this has nothing to do with trans individuals. It is the ideology that transwomen are women and the problems that ideolgy causes.

I don't want convenient definitions, I want ones based in reality, ones that mean something, are widely agreed.

And I haven't said I was bored. I have responded to A N Other poster who said they were....

My definitions aren't "mine", they are the ones accepted worldwide and throughout human history and the rest of the animal kingdom

But it's unavoidable Swiss

Either the 14 year old with a penis who says they are a girl is a girl, or he's a boy.

The other 11-14 year old girls can't refuse to share with another girl can they? Can they refuse to share with the fat girl? The girl who's English isnt very good? The girl with Downs? The girl with 6 fingers?

If not why can they decline to share a room with the girl with the penis?

Ps Swiss, it can be about the illogical argument of BITWB and also about protecting guides, safeguarding, and Muslim girls. It's not either/or.

Great. Let's segregate everything that used to be sex-segregated by gender instead.

By the way, there are currently 78 genders (and rising!), so McDonald's will now need 78 toilets, Gyms will need 78 changing rooms, and groups like Girl Guides will need 78 sections per branch.

Simple

Because everything else stems from the fact that male and female are immutable and BITWB is nonsense. Imo.

I used to look after fireengine who slept in a bed and ran on pasta not diesel. She had episodes of identifying as a woman and episodes of believing that she was a fire engine.

That's sweet!

But on a more serious note: Sonia Sutcliffe, wife of the so-called 'Yorkshire Ripper' was sectioned some years ago because she identified as believed she was an airplane. Why should she not be treated as an airplane if that is how she identified?

Yes I am aware it is about protecting all. That’s been my point all day. All. Including the trans girl that would be excluded.

Beyond: I was replying to curious and her definitions I pass no opinion on yours.

I agree with curious that a feminine man is not a man and vice versa. But where we disagree is whether he can choose to be a woman, to choose to use female pronouns, tick the female box etc.

Great. Let's segregate everything that used to be sex-segregated by gender instead.

By the way, there are currently 78 genders (and rising!), so McDonald's will now need 78 toilets, Gyms will need 78 changing rooms, and groups like Girl Guides will need 78 sections per branch

Except by this time next year, the number of genders will have increased exponentially so McDonald's and gyms will be deemed to be transphobic and women adult human females will be expected to move over and give up any space that was previously dedicated to them.

But where we disagree is whether he can choose to be a woman, to choose to use female pronouns, tick the female box etc.

You can't choose to be a woman FFS.

But I'm identifiably female whether I say anything or not.

I'm identifiably female whether I'm awake, asleep or indeed dead.

Therefore, if I stuck my head into a Guide tent at night, I would cause less alarm amongst sleepy girl children than a man doing the same.

I really don't understand why what I say would outweigh what I fairly obviously am, in the minds of anyone looking or listening to me; and vice versa for males.

a feminine man is not a man and vice versa...But where we disagree is whether he can choose to be a woman

Well, this is a new level of gobbledogook. A feminine man is not a man? But he can choose to be a woman? And a man is not a feminine man?

SwissGemma, your posts are increasingly bizarre.

Sorry typo. Obviously a feminine man is not a woman.

But where we disagree is whether he can choose to be a woman, to choose to use female pronouns, tick the female box etc. He can choose to be/do all of those things. But he can't insist the rest of the world colludes in his lie. That's the point!

And I didn't say a feminine man is not a man...

You can't choose to be a woman FFS.

True. Being a woman an adult human female is not a costume. It is biological.

As I said I was agreeing with curious on that point so I would hope the typo would be obvious.

I agree curious a feminine man is a man. Typing too quickly, but I suspect you knew that!

That is the point we disagree on. I do believe you have the right to chose how the world addresses you.

Why not keep it simple: to be a girl guide you must not have a penis. I think that would make it clear.

A feminine man is a man. Why would a feminine man not be a man?

Saying a feminine man isnt a man contradicts not just biology and the dictionary but even the self id viewpoint that people are what they identify as.

Does wearing nail varnish change your gender?

There is the crux of the argument. This is not about protecting guides, safeguarding, the rights of Muslim girls. It is an objection to trans as and of itself

Are you making up stuff again?

That is the point we disagree on. I do believe you have the right to chose how the world addresses you. Hey! I have trans friends, I call her by her male name, I call him by his female name. I have done so for (bloody hell!!) 50 years or more - one is biologically related to me!

But that doesn't mean I can't disagree with trans ideology or that I don't think GG have made a serous error and need to put it right on any of the ways I outlined previously!

If I wear a trouser suit I am not male.
If I wear a trouser suit and declare from this day on, all day everyday, I am a man and I intend to transition. I am a man. You should respect my wishes to be referred to as Ryan and he. We need to take people as they are.