To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

Gender is how you choose to identify. It is your answer to the question “are you male or female”

What planet are we on? Male and female refer to sexed bodies. Masculine and feminine are gendered characteristics.

FWIW I don't identify as 'feminine', but I know I have been socialised to be so. I know I am female. I have a female reproductive system and sexual characteristics.

Gender is identity. Sex is biology. You are as you identify. I will respect whatever you choose.

I have already said I do not have enough knowledge to address the Muslim issue so cannot

And yet you continue to insist it will all be sorted out by a chat in the face of pps who do have knowledge.

You fail to address how this discussion can be held when GG forbids it.

Feh.

You are as you identify

And if a person does not identify as anything but simply “is”?

I am female because of my body. I do not accept that people with penises are female.

I have repeatedly explained. Feel free to rtft. I have. What you call gender I call sex. I am female. I don't identify as female, my DNA simply is female. Gender is a social construct, not a genetic reality..

Many posters have said that, yet you persist in not acknowledging this. You have just repeated the illogical "gender is what gender you identify as"

“Is” is also an identity. I take everyone as I find them. I may ask what pronouns the prefer. Or avoid the issue by using a name.

This thread is about children who identify as female and want to be I guides. And I support their inclusion.

I also support the inclusion of other girls.

I also think there needs to be a discussion to find a solution.

At no point have I said gender is genetic. It is identity.

Is” is also an identity

No, it is simply a state of being, of fact.

Many posters have said that, yet you persist in not acknowledging this. You have just repeated the illogical "gender is what gender you identify as

It's like talking to a brainwashed member of a cult.

It's like talking to a brainwashed member of a cult

Or a plant pot.

Hold the insults please. Or can you conceive that people can have different opinions?

I wasn’t insulting you, I was describing you.

I can accept that people have different opinions. Some still wear tin hats to watch television or think the Earth is flat and/or was created 6000 years ago in 6 days. Doesn't mean I respect their opinion especially when they simply repeat it ad infinitum without arguing for it or against those who dispute it.

At no point have I said gender is genetic. It is identity. Nobody has aid you have! I don't think you have fully processed many of the responses you have had. It feels as though we have a few words that we understand quite differently, making satisfactory communication impossible!

Sex = a biological fact
Gender = a social construct, based on stereotypes
Identity = who I am, based on lots and lots of factors, quantifiable and qualifiable.

Fissionchips was identifying as someone who felt that they were talking to a pot plant.

That's the beauty of identification: you can be whatever you like and no one can challenge it because it's all about the feelz.

And I am identifying as someone who doesn't give a toss about how people identify.

GG could have avoided all of this with a bit of thought.

Either: they are single sex regardless of gender (presumably female)
Or they are single gender, regardless of sex (therefore mixed sex, like the scouts).

The first would welcome girls and transboys.
The second would require a change in their founding agreements and mixed sex safeguarding measures.

What they appear to be doing is confusing the two, causing a completely unnecessary fight. I am saddened as I loved being a guide, but until safeguarding is addressed, I am not letting DD do the same. At least scouts has thought about problems.

People can't have all the opinions they want. What they can't have, is their own facts.

Swiss if my youngest identifies as a cat do I give him a bowl of catfood on the floor and a litter tray, as he will indeed be a cat?

I used to look after fireengine who slept in a bed and ran on pasta not diesel. She had episodes of identifying as a woman and episodes of believing that she was a fire engine.

FACTUALLY, a woman is an adult human female (or girl is immature human female)
FACTUALLY, a female is the sex grouping that has the potential to produce large gametes, and in humans is the sex grouping that gestates
FACTUALLY, there is no evidence to support the "born in the wrong body" narrative.
It is a belief. On par with a religion. And no one has the right to force others to submit to their belief systems.

Why do your definitions hold?
Why not mine?

Sex is biology
Gender is whether you indentify as. Ale or female or other
Identity is your own self identity and yes is a number of factors of which gender is one.

Your definitions don’t allow for the many people who feel their biological sex does not match their own identity.

Which is convenient if you don’t want to accept trans women. If you want to exclude.

My definitions are convenient if you want to accept and include.

Sorry is my reluctance to roll over and accept your viewpoint boring?

There is the crux of the argument. This is not about protecting guides, safeguarding, the rights of Muslim girls. It is an objection to trans as and of itself.

It’s just taken a day to get there.

Swiss do you accept and include natal girls who don't feel safe sleeping and showering with adolescent peers with penises?

The most sense on this thread is from @scribblygum a guider who advocates discussion and conversation. Not knee jerk exclusion.