To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

"There are c.53 million adult men in England alone... 1% is an awful lot of harm!"

Without googling I'm guessing that is wildly out

The only pronouns I use are I and mine

I don't introduce myself as female, who tf does that?!

I don’t identify as anything. I have a physical body that is female and I have a personality.

I strongly reject a gender identity. I’m wearing jeans, I’m a scientist, I’d need to have a think to remember the last time I wore makeup. Heels are off the menu.

What am I? I’m female, obviously, but that is because of my biology, not the clothes I wear, the job I do, my haircut or any nebulous pink soul.

When you try to drill down into the concept of gender identity it all falls apart. You’re left with the objective reality of the sexed body.

Some people find that objective reality hard, or offensive, and that must be tough for them. Feminists can sympathise with that because in general we think gender is a prison. But reality remains.

‘and yet it moves.

Incidently I said eat as a female not like a, there is a difference.

And sorry @scribblygum my fat fingers have been adding a Bum not gum!

Oh my:

My definitions work in the reverse.

You are gendered male if you identify solely and inalienably as a man.

As for gender fluidity it is more problematic to define but a simple definition would be: you are be gender fluid if you identify variously as male and/or female.

As stated I am against anything that blocks open discussion. I can’t be clearer.

Clearly it's my eating as a male every Friday that is buggering up my weight loss

How does one eat as a female?

Okay, how does a person eat as female? Do you mean eat whilst wearing a dress?

What if you have no gender at all and are simply in a male or female sexed body?

There is indeed a difference

I eat as a female - I am female while eating
A transwoman eats like a female - they eat as to their interpretation of how a female eats (possibly salads)

But you said a transwoman eats as a female ...?

@bowlofbabelfish I agree. Completely. But if asked you would say you are female. For what ever reason you believe that, you would say you are female.

A trans woman would answer in exactly the same way.

Re pronouns. You may only use I and my and mine but others use her and hers and she about you.

Again as I have already clarified I would find it amusing to have someone say “hi, I’m female” but feel free to keep revisiting. Although saying that at conferences I do add she/her to my name badge.

Ahhh. Back to he beginning. Again. I identify as female I do everything as a female. A trans woman identifies as female they do everything as female.

Lichtie and you would be right! My error... But 1% of 31 million is still a lot of harm

What do you mean by “as a” ?! It really should not be difficult to explain if you really understand and mean what you say.

Rufus, yes you would think so wouldn’t you 🤦‍♀️

NoSquirrels, I've not read anywhere within GGUK policies that prohibits open discussion (although I may have missed it, the website is a labyrinthine horror, and don’t get me started on GO).

We aren’t allowed to tell parents if adult members are transgender, and we are advised iirc that it is best policy not to say that someone in a unit it a transgender girl.
We are allowed to talk about this though. Dd2 is itching to get to guides to ask questions, with specific reference to camp, with the leaders and the other girls. We are encouraged, via the promise, “to be true to myself and develop my beliefs”. I haven’t read anything that says I'm not allowed to be a gender critical feminist Guider and I have to stfu about what my beliefs about sex and gender are. I can facilitate and encourage conversation about this issue if I want and then with the girls' consent, share that information back to GGHQ. Of course I have to be open to girls saying they are absolutely fine with the changes as well though. I'm not there to preach, but I am allowed, and I certainly will continue to talk about it.

Yes, back to the beginning - HOW DO THEY DO THAT? Physically, how?

With a pretty dress, lipstick, daintily, small mouthfuls, after the menfolk? How?

Given they are not actually female they have to have some way of approximating / imitating life as a female. We are asking which of the stereotypes you mean?

Does eating as a female mean sticking to the calories you'd require as a same height natal female, rather than the larger number of calories a male body needs due to its different muscle composition?

Further. I do those things in the same way as a man.

Obviously biology would prohibit certain things.

But eating, walking, sleeping, breathing the same. The difference being I identify as a female so am a female doing those things.
My husband identifies as male so is male doing those things.

I don’t buy girl traits vs male traits.

I've not read anywhere within GGUK policies that prohibits open discussion Well, the social media policy is being used to explain one of the expulsions. That there have been 2 expulsions based on women criticising GGs for the changes it is GGs actions that show they do not encourage open discussion, they actively reprimand it.

I don’t buy girl traits vs male traits. So, what do you think gender is then?

I have repeatedly explained. Feel free to rtft.

I identify as female I am a female eating. Easy.

I believe in open discussion and I would be against anything that goes against that

So you don't disagree with GG who sacked guiders for wanting to discuss the implications? Who have closed down the discussion. Sadly even if you disagree you can't change the reality.

You have repeatedly asserted that it will all be lovely. You don't answer any of the questions being asked other than repeating "it'll all be fine".

You seem to be in total denial of the reality of Guiding facilities. As with the Guider up thread there are no facilities with reach of my area (a city) which would enable this shangri la solution to take place. Even if there was, many girls would simply be removed for religious reasons or due to experience of sexual abuse.

And you are ignoring the fact that Guiders are not allowed to tell parents what is happening.

So how does that conversation go with the girl from a strict religious background?

Parent: do you have trans girls as my daughter cannot share space with a male bodied person
Guider: I'm not allowed to tell you
Parent: But we really want her to continue, it just won't be possible if there could be male bodied people
Guider: I'm not allowed to tell you but policy is to accept male bodied people
Parent: then we have to withdraw

Its going to be a similar discussion with young victims of abuse.

Its all very well repeating endlessly about us all sitting around with a cup of tea and a nice chat and coming out as besties. In the real world there is a direct conflict of rights which needs to be addressed and Guiders are not allowed to address or discuss them.

So how do you answer just the shared accommodation issue without using the words "it should be different from the current reality"?

What do you do when parents sue over sexual contact when you were in loco parentis?

With adults I would love expect a transition or intention to transition

There you go again. You are "expecting" but you are wrong. Most trans women these days do not transition (as in they keep the genitalia). You can expect all you like but the facts are against you.

I

Gender is how you choose to identify. It is your answer to the question “are you male or female”.

I don’t identify as female, do that mean I eat as a male?!

You talk absolute nonsense, honestly, just give over and admit that you actually don’t fully understand what the fuck you are saying and believing. It’s absurd.

Gender is how you choose to identify. It is your answer to the question “are you male or female”

And if the answer is “my sex is female”?

swissgemma what you call gender, I call sex. I am of the female sex. That is how I know I am female. Nothing else.

If anyone ever asks me straight out what my gender identity is, I will say I am agender, or non-binary, however I am still of the female sex.

Guides is about children. So questions of transition are outside this debate.

Yes I do disagree with exclusions against open discussion.

I do hold faith in open discussion.

I have already addressed my practical expectations (backed up by a guider on this thread).

I have already said I do not have enough knowledge to address the Muslim issue so cannot.

Re accommodation - think creatively, mix camping and inside sleeping. In all my experience of guiding there was always a choice of rooms maybe you redesignate lounges, rec rooms, etc.