To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

Rufus, apologies again I haven’t rtft all the way through (only selfishly skimming), by the religious bit do you mean weighing up the wants and needs of Muslim girls and leaders against those of trans-girls and trans-women?

So this is going to be a problem for leaders and one which GGUK doesn’t appear to have thought all the ramifications through.

What would happen in reality is at the planning stage of any activity is that it is safe and inclusive (thinking of needs of disabled or SN members). If we can’t all do it, and do it safely with everyone feeling comfortable, then none of us do it, we would do something else. If religious parents, or anyone else for that matter, says to me “I do not want my daughter to share a tent or washing facilities with a male bodied person” and I cannot provide that assurance (thinking of large events) then we wouldn’t go.
As with all things though, having a conversation with someone and allowing them to share their concerns often opens up opportunities to find solutions that everyone finds acceptable. What frustrates me so much about the GG policy is the marked lack wording that relates to allowing the girls and parents to be involved in discussion and decision making.

These threads are understandably full of hypotheticals. What I ultimately think will push change is rl situations occuring and Guiders, parents and girls either finding workable solutions or contacting GGHQ to say “Look, this policy means that these girls or young women are not able to do this activity. By including these people you have excluded these people. Are you happy about this? What solutions do you have for this problem?” Maybe with enough rl examples GGUK will have a rethink.

I am very confused with these things, what /who is a transboy? Is it a girl wanting to be a boy or a boy wanting to be a girl?

@scribblygum which is what I have been saying all day!

Vddanci31 It is confusing isn't it?

Trans boy = a girl who wants to be a boy
Trans girl = a boy who wants to be a girl

They wish to transition into whatever comes after the word trans...

I can hand on heart say that i have nevr said

'Hi, my name is rufus and i am female...'

Curious
I call myself a 'woman' apparently that's the nastiest of all so it's a bloody good job I don't give a damn!

I honestly despair!

Maybe with enough rl examples GGUK will have a rethink. But that may mean that a girl gets raped before anyone will stop and think.

The many voices shouting now, BEFORE that happens will get absolutely no satisfaction from a "Told you so" situation!

I’m listening to all the opinions I just don’t agree with them all, just as people may not agree with mine.

I believe in open discussion and I would be against anything that goes against that.

No I have never said “I am gemma I am female!” It was, as I am sure you are aware a shorthand.

I also identify as a feminist but I include trans women in my definition of female.

I do think that young people are vulnerable and should be supported. And that includes trans girls.

I have faith in guide leaders to find a path through with the idiosyncratic troops you have.

Besides if I wasn’t here debating the opposite view, it would just be a sea of agreement.

The many voices shouting now, BEFORE that happens will get absolutely no satisfaction from a "Told you so" situation

When it happens they will just blame the girl(s) anyway.

Admin doesn’t make anyone change anything. think you know that’s not what I was suggesting. i was excluding the Philip Bunce model.

But ticking boxes, or wearing a dress changes nothing.

You probably think I’m being awkward and I am - but I want to make people think About the absurdities and circular arguments.

If you can’t express a concept or an argument in very simple irreducible terms, of you can’t pin down a definition then it means the argument is shaky.

I can define female and woman and girl very simply. I can define sex simply. I can’t really define a gender identity. I can define gender - it’s the set of behavioural expectations society pins on each sex. But I can’t define gender identity. When I try, it gets waffly. I start to need words like feelings, and concepts like souls.

So I think gender identity is effectively a belief system. And if you have a belief, religious or any other, that can’t be objectively proven, then thats ok - until you force me to believe it too.

@scribblybum is talking the most sense. 99% of the time there wouldn’t be an issue.

There's a 6 ft 5, shoe size 13, broad shouldered 13 year old boy in my 13 year old girl's school class.

If he says tomorrow that he's a girl, should he be put in the girl's dorm on next week's school trip?

If he says tomorrow that he's a girl, should he be put in the girl's dorm on next week's school trip?

Of course! Providing he eats and sleeps like a she.

99% of the time there wouldn’t be an issue

There are c.53 million adult men in England alone... 1% is an awful lot of harm!

Sex: biological sex
Gender: self idenfied gender

With adults I would love expect a transition or intention to transition.

You are gendered female if you identify solely and inalienably as a woman.

When it happens they will just blame the girl(s) anyway But which type of girl would they blame? Would they be able to identify the properly to blame, pesky be-cunted girls?

I also identify as a feminist but I include trans women in my definition of female.

Why? Humans cannot change sex.

I believe in open discussion and I would be against anything that goes against that.

Swiss the GG guidelines specifically prohibit open discussion.

You are gendered female if you identify solely and inalienably as a woman

..and if you have a vagina but don’t identify as a woman then what are you?

Gender: self idenfied gender You do know you can't use a word to define itself, don't you?

Sex = biology, gametes etc
Gender = social construct based on stereotypes of the public expression of sex based activities and appearances - think Barbie and Action Man

But which type of girl would they blame? Would they be able to identify the properly to blame, pesky be-cunted girls

They would be the ones penetrated by a penis, so yes.

Maybe with enough rl examples GGUK will have a rethink

Or a think even

You would think they would put policy documents out to the grass roots before enshrining them

Thank you for your replies scribbly

Oh yes! Silly me, that's where we started, wasn't it!

Let them be hurt, then we will know which are the girls, they will be the ones in pain!

as I am sure you are aware a shorthand

No i wasn't aware

I can be very literal at times