To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

I identify as female. Use female pronouns. Introduce myself as female.

They are not the things which 'make you female'. You must know that surely?

I identify as female. Use female pronouns. Introduce myself as female

Do you think rape is a gendered it sexed crime?

'Introduces herself as female' rofl - well there's a dead giveway! Never in my life have i ever heard someone who is actually female go "Hi, I'm female!" Lmao

Or^

I have also repeatly explained that gender is how you identify.

It's all bollocks though if you don't have regressive and sexist stereotypes to back it up.

Let's openly discuss the issues for Muslim girls.

You have just said (accurately) that trans girls will still have a penis.

Muslim girls will not be allowed to join a group with people who have a penis.

Feel free to go back and reread everything I have written and not just one quoted post.

There is no fundamental female/make way of doing anything. We are all individuals. I choose to identify as female so everything I do I do in that identity. I don’t randomly on a Tuesday demand to be known as Bruce and by he.

My point yet again was that we are talking about children who believe all day everyday what ever they are doing that they are other than the sex they were born with. Rather than the Phillip bunce model.

When are people going to stop being so damn moronic and look at the bigger picture? Let's say that theoretically, every person of any age right now today, who identifies as female - does in fact do that in a totally benign way. Great let's allow them to use women's safe spaces, as the biggest concern would be biological girls and women's discomfort (and hey when has that ever mattered?)

Are people really unable to see that by chipping away at women's rights that major loopholes are being created? The issue is making it easier and easier in the future for sexual preditors who use a penis as a weapon to swing on the coattails of benign trans women to get themselves easy access to women and children!

The fact that there are people that don't see this baffles me beyond belief and makes me feel physically sick about how bleak the future will be.

I identify as female. Use female pronouns. Introduce myself as female. I don't identify as anything. I simple am I tend to use my name, and that of others. She being that cat's mother! I don't introduce myself "Hi, I am Curious, female doncha know!"

A trans girl identifirs as female. Uses female pronouns. Introduces herself as female. So, how does a boy identify as a gir?. What does that mean, precisely ? He can say "I am she" and many people will go along to be polite, as they have always done! And, as I am guessing that no natal female adds the suffix "I-am-a-woman" to their name, all a boy or man does when they say , out loud, I am a woman, is prove that they are not.

All day every day. Indeed!

You have just said (accurately) that trans girls will still have a penis

Yep...so not a girl then. A boy who has no place within a girl exclusive group.

I have already said I am ill equipped to find solutions for Muslim girls I do not know enough. I would suggest an open discussion between people involved to find workable solutions.

Onthebrink Do you mean all those things that "will never happen" ??

Be careful, you'll get called a nasty name!

Most GG acommodation is single sex provision. There is not the dorm space or washing facilities to separate by sex/ gender. I was a Leader before having DCs (sons). I logistically can't bring them to most venues within a 50 mile radius because there is not the provision to abide by the GG rules applying to boys. Yet if my long haired DS said "I identify as a girl" those rules to protect the girls and him go out of the window and he can be a full member

Organising a pack holiday is a massive job. It has to be affordable. If it is too far for parents to transport, hiring mini-busses significantly adds to costs. It needs to be near appropriate activities. It has to be approved to GG standards. There are few venues that are practical to give the members privacy to their hearts desire.

On a larger camp, you have to submit your numbers then are given a tight pitch to arrange your sleeping and mess tents in. It might be a very awkward area (steep slopes, trees) and you are restricted to what you actually own. You're not free to just add some extra tents in because certain combinations of members don't want to sleep together.

Safeguarding for the very large camps is a massive logistical nightmare when there are thousands of teenage Guides/ Rangers, Scouts/ Explorers present. With those camps it is transparent that it is mixed sex for members and parents to make their choices.

I've recently attended Safe Space training. The comfort and feelings of the members are something we need to consider, rightly so. So why do the rights of transboys usurp several other areas of GG policy? Logically, it makes more sense to keep to single sex not gender and to support girls with doubts about their gender as long as they feel happy to retain membership, not to push them away in favour of the opposite sex who feel feminine.

I haven't spoken up within the organisation because there's enough to do to keep units running and more than enough shitty local politics interfering anyway. If leaders of active units stop organising residentials or quit or are evicted, then all the girls will miss out.

I would suggest an open discussion between people involved to find workable solutions. And as many have responded, open discussion is what got 2 leaders sacked.

The trans lobby do not allow open discussion. MN is one of the few online arenas where the very topic of this thread, the discussion you are now engaged in, is allowed without fear of retribution, doxxing etc.

It is also why many posters are so very determined to make their point, clearly, loudly. Women are being backed into some very small corners and it MUST STOP!

But you do identify - by the name you use, the box you tuck on forms etc. Yes obviously no one wanders around yelling I am female. I think you know that’s not what I was suggesting. Again I was excluding the Phillip bunce model.

By excluding Philip Bunce you are being extraordinarily transphobic.

I don't. My real name is fairly unisex. I don't tick any 'gender' box, I state I am female - AM by biology not a feeling.

And it was you who said 'introduce myself as female' Given that I found a lot of your other sentences equally improbable, yet you say you DO mean them, I was taking you at face value.

You are also excluding many women and girls!

But you do identify - by the name you use, the box you tuck on forms etc. Yes obviously no one wanders around yelling I am female. I think you know that’s not what I was suggesting. Again I was excluding the Phillip bunce model.

But really, what does make any transwoman any more 'female' than Philip Bunce, in actual reality? They are still essentially just wearing 'woman' as a costume, it's just that they wear that costume all the time, as opposed to Tuesdays and Fridays?

No I know that a trans girl and a boy want privacy and won’t wiggle their willies everywhere!

So your message is 'Trust all transgirls. Transgirls are uniquely trustable.'

But not the guides' own little brothers or the sons of the Guiders. Nope, they have to sleep elsewhere.
Why?

Don't forget everyone- the government is consulting on making it easier to change their sex. - change their birth certificate, change all their documents.

Answer the consultation.

Write to your MP. Tell them about the guides policy & ask them how they'd feel about their daughter sleeping in a tent with a male bodied child.

Ask them how we make sure that Muslims & others can still be involved in single sex groups if they're not single sex any more.

Write to your MP. They might not be aware of all of this.

Although interestingly I am being criticized for having an opinion which seems in line with the guiders on this thread who are being supported.

Respect. Understanding. And support. That is what I believe guiding offers. I am uncomfortable with vulnerable children being ostracised. That extends before it gets bright up again to Muslim girls.

Again, workable solutions should be sought.

But you do identify - by the name you use, the box you tuck on forms etc

Do you think a rape could be stopped by telling your attaker that you identify as male?
Do you think rape and sexual assault is a gendered or sexed crime?

Swissgemma I respect you for continuing to engage. But I'm not sure you're listening to all the views.

Good grief!

Again 2 women who tried to start a conversation about solutions were sacked.

You aren't actually being criticised , this is called a discussion, a debate! Nobody has stated that you are utterly wrong to hold the opinion you do. Many are trying to explain why you may not have thought it through!

And a workake solution or tow HS been suggested!

1. GGs say they are now a mixed sex organisation - and do all the work that would require, Just like the Scouts did

1. GG have a rethink and realise that the people and organisations they relied upon for guidance were single agenda organisations, biased.

1. GG should have a closer look at the actual wording of the EA2010... and then bring themselves back into line with it

I am sure I posted that about 10 pages ago!

I have already said I am ill equipped to find solutions for Muslim girls I do not know enough. I would suggest an open discussion between people involved to find workable solutions.

An 'open discussion' between the religious leaders of Islam and the GG? And then it'll all be OK, they'll change their minds?