To think that if Girl Guides is for girls, it should allow all girls to be members?

[OrchidInTheSun]

Girl guides have confirmed that if a girl identifies as a boy, they'll kick them out.

So they are no longer a single sex organisation, they are a single gender one.

Mad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-for-girl-guides-who-identify-as-boys-dlj8mjk23

Yes a trans girl may want to share and get aroused by other girls. Similarly so too could a lesbian. Again no one should be forded to share sleeping accommodation.

Forced not forded!

The trans boy might already be in guides.

If a female lesbian is aroused by their peers, how can you tell? You can't.

If a male bodied person is aroused- it's pretty bloody obvious! And should the girls have to put up with being in the same tent/ room as an obviously erect penis?

No.

She will want a certain amount of privacy for changing, showering etc.

Some will - except in most cases that privacy won't be available, either for the child who identifies as a transgirl, or for the natal girls.

Some won't - there are too many well-documented cases of transwomen who delight in making women uncomfortable by exposing their male genitals for anyone to be 100% certain that some teenage "transgirls" won't take the same delight in that.

Swissgemma does it not make you feel homophobic writing that shit? Lesbians are not males, OK? Absolutely astounded at the level of lesbophobia used to justify prioritising the rights and interests of a very small group of males. You go girl.

'Forced'
According to guides rules, the trans person should chose where they sleep. The other girls will not get that choice.

No I know that a trans girl and a boy want privacy and won’t wiggle their willies everywhere! That is my point. The reality is that a trans girl will still have a penis and may actively seek out separate facilities anyway.

May

Swiss have you ever been on a guide camp or holiday?

Tents are either small hike types for one or two people or larger patrol tents for 4-6. They don't often have separate bedrooms- there may be a flimsy curtain down the middle.

The new rules say the trans girl can sleep where they want to- a leader is not allowed to put them on their own or in a different tent.
It is up to the other girls to request a separate space and seem like a bigot

Where are these indoor guide venues with a choice of separate individual bedrooms? The ones local to me all have dorm rooms with multiple bunks. And the same rules as above apply - the transgirl gets to choose.

Ditto toilets and washing facilities- a large set for the children and a much smaller one loo one for adults (which is usually marked as the one visiting males should use).

You are NOT ALLOWED to differentiate- I cannot put in my risk assessment the risk of a guide with a penis sharing a tent with a guide with a vagina.

What part of that do you not understand? How can you not see that that will cause difficulties for anyone who doesn't want to or can't share with a person with a penis?

no I know lesbians are not male. I wrote quickly in response to the risk of trans girls being attracted to other girls. Lesbians too may be attracted to other girls was my point. No intent to merge the two, apologies if it came across that way.

I have been involved in guiding and scouting all my life.

I do keep saying that individual troops will operate of an individual basis on a practical level. In the same way that in my experience personal preferences are accommodated.

It's not about attraction, I wouldn't want to see a gay man's penis and despite the fact I know full well he wouldn't be attracted to me I wouldn't want him to see me in a state of undress or share sleeping space with him. He is a different sex to me, that is the key factor.

As a guider you are splitting the group into 4/5/6s to share tents. Jane choses to sleep with her 3 friends born women. Janet choses 3 friends 2 born women 1 trans. Everyone is happy. No issue. Or Jo, trans women says actually can I have my own tent I would feel more comfortable, again no issue.

When issues come up they can be dealt with. So Jo is not chosen to be in a tent. Chat with jo, what do you want to do? The same as if Jane was excluded. Just don’t force shared sleeping.

Again don’t force shared sleeping.

If you don’t force shared sleeping no one needs to see a penis they don’t want to!

Jo (trans girl) chooses to share a tent with Sarah (girl) as they both fancy each other.

As jo and Sarah are both considered to be girls under GG policy, leaders are not allowed to write anything in risk assessment about their concerns over a male body & female body teenager sharing overnight. The parents of the children must not be told who is sleeping with a male bodied person.

Jo & Sarah have a fun night & Sarah gets pregnant. Age 14.

Would it never happen? Of course it would.

In fact, I think it's likely to happen.
2 teenagers with raging hormones try and arrange to share a tent overnight- statistically highly likely.

a trans person with a penis who has convictions for paedophilia & rape being allowed to live in a women's prison that also has resident children- how statistically likely is that?
Not very likely. BUT IT HAPPENED.

More than once.

No one chooses to share with Jo. Chat with Jo who says she wants to share with Jane - what happens then?

I don't think guides are currently allowed to sleep on their own in a tent anyway.

because Guiders simply will ignore that bit of the policy

Im not sure im ecstatic about the

We will ignore bits of policy we dont agree with

I think maybe the policy should be changed...not that people should ignore the part of the policy they don't like

Swissgemma why are most sleeping spaces & washing/ toiletting facilities separated by sex do you think?

And anyway this is all redundant - because under the current policy NO ONE will be told that Jo is trans.

But Sarah will know that Jo is trans.

Actually all the girls will know. We aren't stupid.

And when Sarah goes home & starts getting fat, then everyone will know.