To think a second Brexit referendum will not happen

[abacucat]

I am a remainer, but people campaigning for a second Referendum are wasting their time. It is not going to happen.

Brexit has already cost £4 billion, billions more to be spent....all for nothing tangible.

What would that 4 billion have done for further education or care of the elderly ? or reinstatement of nursing bursaries..... but oh no, we can't afford any of that.

I wonder how many people voted directly as a result of any campaign

Usually a few swing voters might get persuaded by hyperbole but most people know its inflated campaign bluff.
On both sides, like project fear.

Will the economy go off a cliff... Well it might have done. Beware... It might it we don't know. No different to the bus.
Will x billion go to NHS... It might. It could... It's free money.

Most people had their minds made up or quite sure which way they wanted to go without the campaigns.
It's clutching at straws and it's not true to put the campaigns down as the sole reason why anyone voted either way.

Being in the EU benefited the South and the Capital. The EU benefits Germany and France.

Being in the EU benefited the South and the Capital. The EU benefits Germany and France.

Simplistic, tired, in many respects blatantly not true. Is this an attempt to convince?

surferjet your comment wasn't (I don't think) directed at me but if it were I would hold up my hands. I have been on MN FAR too much over the last three days, to the detriment of my kids and my sanity quite frankly. So I'm off shortly, but I want to explain why I haven't been able to leave it.

These paid trolls are real. I'm not suggesting you are one. But you can SEE their behaviour and they are paid to influence public thought. I don't know where they come from or who pays them but it is true that Russia for example invests loads of money in this kind of subtle mind-control. I truly believe it was these people who won the referendum by coming on popular forums like this one, unchallenged, and expertly influencing people's opinions.

I would be sad about the referendum result if it were not a result of lying and scheming and foreign interference, I can admit that, but I would genuinely suck it up if I thought it were a fair and true representation of what people wanted - and they had been properly informed.

But we know that it wasn't. Was it?

And now I can see this particular OP, having learned from the fact she/he was called out early on because her posting pattern was classic paid troll. They are posting in a non-commital, faux personal way all over the boards to give themselves credence. But they did not do this before the summit last week when they were invented, fully formed. So in a way they are best off ignored. but I just. cannot. Do it.

Can we deal with this "Project Fear" accusation?

I expressed concerns about Northern Ireland and was told that was "Project Fear". I also said that sterling would crash and things would get more expensive, and that was "Project Fear" too. I said that there was no way we would be able to end free movement and still have access to the single market, and so if we were going to end free movement it would be at the expense of the economy and jobs. Also "Project Fear", apparently.

How many things that remainers predicted actually have to come to pass before people stop using this ridiculous phrase?

To be perfectly honest, I don't think "Project Fear" went far enough. I think they underestimated the scale of the shit we would be in. I don't actually recall "Project Fear" talking about stockpiling food and medicine, or about Heathrow making plans to close for up to two months because all flights might be grounded. If "Project Fear" had said those things then probably even I would have thought they were being ridiculous.

But, amazingly, that is the situation we are currently in, and some people are still saying "Project Fear", apparently without any trace of irony.

Astounding.

your comment wasn't (I don't think) directed at me but if it were I would hold up my hands.

It was directed at me. I would point out that two out of the last three days have been Saturday and Sunday. I have posted a bit today but I'm not very busy.

These paid trolls are real. I'm not suggesting you are one. But you can SEE their behaviour and they are paid to influence public thought.

They are indeed real.

Surferjet is not one. Surferjet posts like a real human being and has been here consistently since before the referendum and during the last two years. The trolls are only here when there is actually a referendum to campaign for, which is why the fact that some of them appear to be back again actually gives me cause to hope that all might not be lost. Someone with money on the leave side seems to think it's not in the bag yet.

It wasn’t you I was referring to actually Mookatron but tbf you’ve all been very prolific over the last few days.
Plus, if you know anything about this site, & particularly the brexit board, you’ll know it’s dominated by remainers who post A LOT.
There are remainers who post on the Westminster threads all day everyday - are they paid trolls? If not why not? They seem to have endless time on their hands to talk bollocks all day.

Surely the easiest way to get rid of a paid troll is to pm mnhq.

They will then look at the posters history, how long they have been on mn for. Do they post on other subjects or just brexit.
I think that's a better way of tackling it from all sides than clogging up threads with references to paid trolls.

Well maybe they are, but I haven't seen any who follow that pattern of appearing on a crucial day/at a crucial time, posting very very prolifically and knowledgably, using language that seems intended to deliberately inflame emotion, and only on that subject. And then they disappear! I acknowledge I've been prolific but these people seemed to post between particular hours and then vanish. Plus to be honest (and I don't wish to seem xenophobic) their English is very good but not quite authentic, with a stray preposition that a native speaker wouldn't use, or the misuse of an idiom.

As I say, I haven't seen any remainers (actual ones, not ones who are saying 'I'm a remainer but...'). I'm not looking for them though I suppose.

When you do report them MN will stay very much on the fence. There's a current thread in Site Stuff. I don't consider it clogging up and you don't have to agree with me but if it makes one person read posts more carefully I'm happy.

Surfer, the trolls are very clever but when you read their posts for long enough it's obvious that they're just not posting in a normal, human way.

I have posted on here about Brexit a lot, under a couple of different usernames, but I also post on lots of other subjects and I've given away enough details about myself that someone I know who happens to be reading Mumsnet could probably work out that it was me. When people annoy me about Brexit I often get pissed off and lash out a bit. Sometimes I don't post for weeks or even months if I'm really busy. Sometimes I post prolifically, if work is quiet or in the evenings if my husband is working away.

These Brexit posters sound like they're reading off a script. They don't get wound up or angry, if people come out with personal comments they never retaliate, when people ask them difficult questions they just ignore them and keep repeating the same things parrot fashion. They sound like they're reading off a script. They often post around what looks suspiciously like a shift pattern. They don't post about any other subject or mention any details of their personal lives. (Because they're not being paid to comment on threads called "AIBU or is my MIL?" or to ask for advice about their cycle.)

By saying it is too late, I was referring to our fractured relationships with the EU rather than the repeal of Article 50. Sorry I did not make that clear.

You can look up the pro EEC literature from the 1975 referendum campaign online . It makes interesting reading considering where we are today. The 1975 referendum was in response to the UK entering the EEC in 1973 following the election of the Conservative government in 1970. The referendum followed a lot of disquiet in the nation about our membership.

You’re obsessed with Russia & I don’t really know why.
Why does Russia want us to leave the EU?

Because we are weaker without the EU and the EU is weaker without us. And while we're all fighting amongst ourselves we're not paying attention to what Putin might be doing under the cover of darkness. This is good new for Russia.

But I don't think all online trolls are Russian. Plenty of people have an interest in Brexit not being reversed.

Personally I think the idea of trolling on Mumsnet sounds like something Andrea Leadsom might think of. There was one on here before the referendum called Daisy something, and her posts followed a very particular pattern. She would start a thread with a link to an article about Brexit in the Daily Mail, Sun or Express, and then she would comment on it with something about being a mum. "As mums, we all want the best for our children, which is why I think we should be very worried about [something to do with the EU]." She basically implied that anyone with children should be very afraid of the EU and should vote leave for the sake of their children's futures (and that anyone who voted remain was a bad parent). Her posting style was basically like "that's why mums go to Iceland", only "that's why mums vote for Brexit".

It sounded straight out of the Andrea Leadsom "as a mum, I'm the best candidate for prime minister" playbook.

Same old swearing and abuse and calls of “racist” from remainers.

Probably for the same reason they'd like us to leave NATO.... if Remain are correct, we 'll be worse off, less defence spending less influence, our leaving weakens the EU, economically, defensively and its political influence.

Though seeing how Putin walks in and out of the UK killing who and with whatever he likes, maybe that ship has sailed.

Who has called who racist now?

There will not be another referendum.

Amused to see myself described as a Russian schill.

Ok thank you Ethel

( can I call you Ethel? - we have spoken a few times now )

I don't think anyone accused you of being one, OP?

Of course you can Surfer. :)

"Why does Russia want us to leave the EU?"
Because it's a bloc, he doesn't control right on his border with no buffer - apart from Belarus and Ukraine, oh and Moldova. Ukraine has been desperate to join the EU - long way to go before it does.
Belarus (I've lived there) is a mess. And neither it or Moldova is much of a buffer.
In the same way he doesn't want the US throwing its weight about so it has made sure there's a patsy in the White House. It can't do anything about China but it can focus on anything arising from that sphere if the US and the EU are preoccupied with themselves.

I did actually. It was a mistake. Wholehearted apologies.