To think a second Brexit referendum will not happen

[abacucat]

I am a remainer, but people campaigning for a second Referendum are wasting their time. It is not going to happen.

This fucking club that you are soooooo keen to stay in is the same fucking club that is now leaving people to die on their makeshift rafts because their “morality” based immigration policies are a bit less popular with the electorate so they are abandoning them literally and metaphorically. So you joined Team Farage instead? That makes perfect sense.

So you joined Team Farage instead?

You still don't seem able to grasp that people vote for the same thing for different reasons. Even on the same issue, you could argue that the EU is extremely racist and xenophobic because, by being a member, you have to open your job market up to member countries ahead of the rest of the world, no matter whether non-member countries have people who are better qualified or in greater need of employment.

So you joined Team Farage instead? It is ridiculous to assume that anyone who voted to leave is a big fan of Farage or were persuaded to vote leave just because of a slogan on a bus. Those who voted leave had many different reasons for voting the way they did and had formed views over a number of years long before Farage came on the scene and not just in the last few months leading up to the referendum.

I just think it's a daft argument to make when the whole point of leaving the EU so we are told is because people want to close the borders, not open them up.

I dont think the whole point of leaving is because people want to close the borders. People want to have more control of our borders but not close them

Good, well perhaps someone could tell Theresa May that so we could go for a soft Brexit which won't fuck up the economy or Northern Ireland then? If it's not about closing the borders then that shouldn't be a problem and she has got her red lines all wrong.

Oh GROW UP!!! Did you join team Juncker and Tusk then!? Ffs! I didnt vote for a team, I voted to (hopefully) break up a twisted “union” that spends it time arguing with each other over who gets the better deal whilst apparently “working together.” (Imagine a new paragraph) I accept the fact that the burocratic nightmare (self made) of untangling the toxic relationship will mean hard economic times for a period but I’ve decided (along with just enough others) it’s better than the alternative. I can also accept that you don’t without resorting to insults.

But I don't think all online trolls are Russian. Plenty of people have an interest in Brexit not being reversed. Why is it assumed that all trolls on Brexit threads are supporting leave? If there is so much support for staying in the EU then surely it's just as likely there will be Remain trolls.

Noname99 you certainly make more interesting arguments than most leavers!
The EU is certainly facing challenging issues in relation to economic migrants and the decisions some member states are making are, as you say, morally reprehensible. But I can't see how leaving helps.

If we go the people will still die on boats in the Med but we will have no way of helping or influencing or improving the situation. Walking away from a European wide issue doesn't make us better it makes us cowards.

As always Brexit discussion raises issues but I can't see how leaving the EU will solve the issues you raise.

And the whole point of Brexit isn’t bloody borders & immigrantion - stop believing everything you read in the bloody Daily Mail! That’s SOME people’s reasons. And very few think they should close ..... just be controlled.

Mouse moose - Because we can’t change it while we are in it! Can’t you see that? The EU isn’t about solving anything - it’s a chess game about shunting the problem around so it’s not ‘your’ problem but someone else’s. How can you possibly defend an organisation who solution to the migrant issue is to try to blackmail Turkey into setting up migrant camps as a bargaining chip for possibly joining? That is now shunting ships from port to port arguing that they should go to the next country? They won’t solve anything but we, as our own country, can figure out what we need to do / want to do to support this world wide issue. Without any deals, without any of the appalling rhetoric ..... we can decide ....... and I have faith in the British people ..... this lurch to the right will recede and we’ll do the right thing. Perhaps more creatively than now. Worst case is we don’t and have a quota ..... which is exactly where we are now!

I accept the fact that the burocratic nightmare (self made) of untangling the toxic relationship will mean hard economic times for a period but I’ve decided (along with just enough others) it’s better than the alternative. How good of you to make that decision on behalf of people who can barely afford to heat their homes and feed their kids as it is. I'm sure they'll all be very grateful to you.

untangling the toxic relationship will mean hard economic times for a period

So long as its not you who loses his or hers job, argues over money, kids on free school meals, ends up divorced and losing the house/can’t pay the rent etc eh?

And the whole point of Brexit isn’t bloody borders & immigrantion - stop believing everything you read in the bloody Daily Mail! That’s SOME people’s reasons. And very few think they should close ..... just be controlled. I don't read the Daily Mail. That's why I didn't vote for Brexit. OK so now we're getting somewhere. If closing the borders is just "SOME people's reasons" rather than being the whole point of Brexit, why can't we have a soft Brexit that doesn't fuck the economy and Northern Ireland? Or do your principles not extend to people living on the breadline in the UK or people potentially in the line of fire if things kick off in Northern Ireland? Surely those things are more important than ending free movement, if Brexit isn't all about closing the borders?

If you can't even be bothered to learn how to spell Bureaucratic should you even have a vote?

Excellent point jasjas - well made. That’s absolutely the clincher in this debate.

We can't do anything on our own, nothing at all. One country shouting from the sidelines will be less than useless. The EU is an ocean liner and it can be moved in increments. The U.K. used to have influence, it was respected by many countries especially in relation to foreign policy. We have pissed that away.

Any desire to change, influence or help has gone.

And while we lose any influence we have in Europe and the wider world the U.K. will become poorer and will lose more influence. The poorer parts of the U.K. will suffer more - because that's how economic crises work.

The EU is not an elegant fast moving institution, it is overly bureaucratic but it it is better than nothing. Also, the EU has helped keep the peace in Western Europe for the longest period ever - do not dismiss that.

You have knowingly decided to bring economic hardship on other people who may or may not have voted for brexit or even not been old enough to vote, how fucking selfish are you?

Ethel and jasjas - but your votes made purely out of self interest - I’m alright jack bollocks to the rest of the world - are allowed! Goid grief. You have no interest in anything other than an echo chamber.

Fucking Hell Ethel! - who claims to live in France - You're not exactly a half full glass kind of mademoiselle are you?

You are voting for Turkish concentration camps and ships shunted from one European port to another whilst your precious EU argues about who takes “them” this time. I believe they are now just fishing people out of the water and dumping them on the first bit of African shoreline they find ..... but yeh - I’m the selfish one.

Ethel and jasjas - but your votes made purely out of self interest - I’m alright jack bollocks to the rest of the world - are allowed! Err, no, I voted for what I thought was - and, for the avoidance of doubt, what definitely was, the best thing for the country. I was on the losing side but my conscience is clear. Since the result, and in large part because of it, I have taken the opportunity to remove myself (and my skills and my contribution to the UK economy) from the country for personal reasons. You probably have more to lose from Brexit than I do, because you will actually be living in the UK when the shit hits the fan, and I will not.

Of course not. I wish we'd remained but as soon as you start saying we can just revote until we get a better answer is the moment when there's no point in voting.
If we just keep on changing the vote what's the point? It's undemocratic

FinnegansWhiskers I do live in France, not sure why you would doubt that. I am generally a glass half full kind of person but I am unable to see any positives about Brexit. I'm not delusional. I understand better than most how the EU works and what challenges lie ahead, and I'm afraid I just can't find a single silver lining. (Except, perhaps, electoral reform if both the Tories and Labour make themselves unelectable for respectively causing and failing to stop this utter shit show.) Other than that possible benefit, there is no upside to Brexit.

Mouse moose - I respectfully disagree. The ocean liner has had decades to turn but it doesn’t - its members continue to spend their time trying to out manoeuvre each other to their own ends. It isn’t a federation of autonomous states working for the greater good - it’s a competition between states to gain the most. It can never work. But you are right, one country standing outside will not make a difference but I’m hoping we are the first domino ....