To think a second Brexit referendum will not happen

[abacucat]

I am a remainer, but people campaigning for a second Referendum are wasting their time. It is not going to happen.

Gronky Well Theresa May explicitly said she was holding a general election because she needed to get an increased mandate for her stated Brexit policy, which was hard Brexit, and she lost 13 seats and her majority. So yes, I think it was fairly fundamental.

Just "Genuine Questions" Ethel posed mostly out of curiosity wondering why you are so prolific in your Postings over many threads all critical of the 2016 Referendum, the Result and anyone that you suspect voted Leave. And, ta for pointing out that each country has different childcare systems - without you I might never have known that. That's it - I'm off MN for the night now - dc, UK responsibilities and the like.

Ethel Labour made it clear they were supporting Brexit! Lots of leavers are natural labour supporters. Unfortunately now the labour seems to be half champagne socialists remainers and the other lot on the verge of being communists.

Yes the 1970s were not great, but was that not down to various factors such as the unions having too much power and holding the government to ransom?

It was predominately down to the quadrupling of the price of oil, triggered by the US support for Israel and OPC deciding to make some money out of the stuff, it went from $20 to $100.
Imagine what that sort of rise would do for the Global economy today?

It had little to do with the uk unions as it effected every country in every continent.

I really don't understand the point of this thread. Firstly, it's not an AIBU question but more importantly nobody knows what will happen next. Politics is really unpredictable so no forecasting is possible.

Gosh Ethel .....how rude! And you wonder why leavers won’t engage.

Gronky I do! Lots of people started to vote UKIP before the election. Hence why the Tory party hand it in its manifesto.

Wouldn't that have gained them votes? I did mean their pledge on Brexit, by the way. Based on commentary in the media at the time, I was under the impression that the heaviest criticism was levelled at social care reform. In my opinion, TM was misled or overestimated how much support she had compared to Labour and went all in on the reforms she wanted to make.

So yes, I think it was fairly fundamental.

Considering that the Liberal Democrats openly promised a second refferendum and only enjoyed a very small swing (as well as losing votes), I would say that full on opposition to Brexit played a comparatively minor role overall.

if you still think Brexit is a good idea now then yes, sorry but you are an idiot

Can you possibly conceive that others might have different priorities to you that would contribute to them voting differently without having being deceived or being 'an idiot'?

I think there really should be a second vote. Possibly with three options. 1, leave under the deal that has been negotiated, 2, leave with no deal, 3, remain.

Neweternal Yes, which is why anyone who says that pro Brexit parties got 90% of the vote can take a running jump as far as I'm concerned. Like people had any choice. Labour are just as crap as the Tories.

Noname I don't see why I should be polite to people who have clearly fucked up the country's future and still can't articulate a single good reason for it. (A good reason being one that stands up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.) If you voted leave last time because you believed the lies then yeah OK, you're a bit silly, but I would have far more respect for you if you stood up now and said, "hmm, this isn't quite what was promised, is it?" Instead you're all just still pretending that this is a great idea and would be a huge success if all the remoaners would only "get behind Brexit" and the EU would just give us a special unicorn deal because you don't want to lose face by admitting that you were wrong.

Gronky, do you understand how the first past the post system works, and why it doesn't much matter what the Lid Dems (or any party which is not the Tories or Labour) says?

Brexit is absolutely fucking stupid shit show. We know it, our politicians know it, and the rest of the fucking planet knows it. We’re a nation of fucking morons who quite frankly deserve everything we get. What a complete fucking mess. I can’t believe we’re stuck with this bollox. I seriously can’t. It’s insane.

I’m a strong Remainer, too and I work in an industry which would be massively affected by a ‘no deal’ Brexit. I went on the ‘People’s Vote’ march in London in June. Even I think a second referendum is highly unlikely unless the Labour leadership commit to it. They won’t because Corbyn, McDonnell and their paymaster McCluskey are all life-long Eurosceptics.

Can you possibly conceive that others might have different priorities to you that would contribute to them voting differently without having being deceived or being 'an idiot'? Only if their priority is to drive the economy off a cliff and make a personal profit from it at the expense of the 99%.

I'm not sure about a second referendum because a) it's disrespectful to those who won the vote first time and b) what if we get the same result again? What I think the government should do is to be honest and say: "Sorry, we messed up. We asked you to vote but we've now realised there's no available deal for leaving that won't fuck up the country. So, we're going to stay in. Sorry for asking you to vote on something where one option turned out not to be viable." I would really respect any party that said this.

Ethel you're being unkind. I suit YOU to stay in the EU but you are not the only person on the planet. Perhaps it suits you due to husband being a different nationality and you want more options for your children? This is your perspective and everyone has their own perspective on things effect themselves and their country and their judgement for the country in 10 or 50 years time. I felt a responsibility for voting leave and I took it seriously and didn't vote because I saw a bus on tv suggesting extra money for the NHS. Staying in the EU suit you, but not everyone.

do you understand how the first past the post system works

Yes, which is why I find it odd that you characterise being able to form a coalition government as an unmitigated 'loss'.

Only if their priority is to drive the economy off a cliff and make a personal profit from it at the expense of the 99%.

Perhaps they don't share your pessimism or prioritise other things over money.

Sorry 😐 suits should of double checked my grammar apologies!

should of

Should have

ethel You are absolutely clueless about why most people who voted leave did. Happy to sling the “lied to by the leave campaigners and right wing press” whilst not realizing that the same fucking sources are telling you why people voted leave. I voted leave because to do anything else was morally REPREHENSIBLE. This fucking club that you are soooooo keen to stay in is the same fucking club that is now leaving people to die on their makeshift rafts because their “morality” based immigration policies are a bit less popular with the electorate so they are abandoning them literally and metaphorically. Many leavers that I know voted for change for the same reason I did - because over the past 25+ years what we have seen is the EU morph from a lose economic union to the mess the EU is in now.
A key remainer argument seems to be that Britain should have stayed in because Britain has more privileges, more vetos, more rights, “a better deal” than everyone else. And that’s not just ok but a good thing? How utterly repugnant is that thinking? It’s a modern day version of colonialisation by economic means rather than at least being a bit more honest and just using an army. France & England up to their old tricks again. Who would want to be part of the corrupt and vile organisation that openly admits that it has members but “some are more equal than others” (1984 anyone?) and the sole intent of each member state and the parliament to use whatever means needed to continue secure better deals for themselves than other members. Some “union” that is. And they don’t even follow there own bloody rules - Germany and France are the biggest violators of EU rules. Force them down the smaller countries throats but don’t fucking adopt them themselves!

Another argument.... our economy need the migrant labour. Migrant workers who are predominantly providing the labour for the lowest paid sectors of our economy - the jobs that British people “do not want to do.” And that’s ok?
W-O-W!! It’s modern day servitude. We have spent a hundred years as a society moving away from having a ‘servant class’ to serve the richer classes but you are happy for us to re-establish this - just with Eastern European workers? Just so long as you can get your car cleaned hey?

Another EU economic policy we seem to be mourning is the potential loss of the protectionist taxation. Interestingly, there seems to be loud criticism from the EU of Donald Trump’s protectionist economic policy of heavily taxing imports and yet the EU have being doing the exact same thing for years. Who does that benefit I wonder? Our neighbours?Worked well for Greece and Portugal hasn’t it? Developing nations? Yeh - fucking right - African nations (the ones with all the resources we exploit) are real economic powerhouses. How is that supportive of other growing economies? In the last 25+ years, EU economic policy certainly hasn’t worked for anyone else in the developing world or we would have seen the benefits. We would have seen stronger, more robust economies grow in Africa, South America, etc but we have not. So the EU economic policies do nothing to support anyone else and everything to protect the “top three” (UK, France, German) Its a fucking “old boys” network on a international scale. So don’t call me an idiot - rather an idiot than a morally bankrupt bloody colonialist

Gronky the shame! Should have, stand corrected!

Neweternal, Brexit will probably personally affect me less than it affects you. I am married to a French man. I have a job that I got after Brexit, when my employer already knew that I would not be an EU citizen indefinitely, and before I was married. They said at the time that if I ever need a work visa they will sort it out for me. I have moved all of my money out of the UK. I will not be personally affected by food shortages. For me the key issues are whether my qualifications will continue to be recognised after Brexit (a fairly big issue but not insurmountable either way), mutual recognition of driving licences and possible temporary disruption to travel to and from the UK or generally on British passports after Brexit. You, on the other hand, have to live in a country whose economy is probably going down the toilet, where the government is making plans to stockpile food and medicine, where food and other essentials are almost certainly going to get more expensive, whose currency has already crashed and is likely to plummet further, and whose already stretched public services are likely to suffer further deep cuts due to the loss in overall wealth and tax receipts of the country due to Brexit. You have to live with the shit that is coming on a day to day basis. I don't. So I wouldn't be so cocky if I were you.

We know that a No Deal Brexit will be a disaster for this country we don't know it will be a disaster. It might be, but no one knows for sure. There is a lot of panic and hysteria on here. I think it is likely that some sort of deal will be agreed as it is in everyones mutual interest to agree a deal.

Gronky the first past the post system is designed to ensure that one of the two main parties can achieve a majority, even with significantly less than half the votes cast. The fact that the Tories failed to get a majority despite the odds being so stacked in their favour (and coming from a @) point lead in the polls) is nothing less than a disaster. OK, it could have been worse for them (Labour could have got more seats) but not much worse.