To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

Males who identify as women offend at the same rate as other males. So they are more likely to be sex offenders than females.

Not bigoted. Fact.

Indeed and this is our worry.
It does not mean we think trans women are more likely to offend, just that some of them will offend (just like men) and if we ignore that we are letting our children and women, down.

And with the leaders its not about 'sleeping' its about the intimate circumstsnces that occur especially on camps - somone being sick - you honestly think there will be 2 leaders there in the toilets- its about a girl starting her periods - its about the trust thease girls build with leaders and the 'power' thease people have over girls.

Boils my piss is such a stupid ignorant and incorrect statement

No married women allowed either who changed their name at marriage too

Because you cant trust dbs checks

DBS is a red herring as above - we don't question whether married women will put their maiden name down (for example - your married name won't automatically link with your maiden name on a DBS). It's a flaw with DBS, to rely on accurate self reporting.

It's not a red herring in this case because potentially transwoman could share intimate space with young females whereas your average man-born-man who fails to self disclose would not.

And yes, a female-born-female could also fail to self disclose and end up sharing intimate space with underage females, but the risk of being sexually assaulted by a woman-born-woman is very small.

In general I agree though, it's a flaw in the DBS system that could apply to anyone returning the forms.

How often do they sleep at bloody guides anyway? dont send them camping if youre that worried, or maybe keep them awsy so you can raise another generation of hate filled bigots.
I know one transwoman ( out of the 1000s of people I have ever known) and she is far too busy trying to get her parents and work colleagues to accept her to have time to molest your kids.

Of course you should. Girl Guides is a single sex organisation and transgender women are of the male sex. About 80% do not have genital surgery. Transgender girls are boys. They cannot have GRCs as they are under 18. They should not be receiving puberty blockers or cross sex hormones at this young age as the effects are not yet known. They are males.
As the trans umbrella covers so many now, from people suffering gender dysphoria - a very distressing condition, which should be treated/managed in the best way for them - to fetisistic cross dressers, GG should rethink its policy.
Anyone who thinks things couldn’t go wrong should google David Challoner. He volunteered with Scouts.

The OP is not bashing trans people she is simply stating a fact, that if people are allowed to just decide they are a different sex then it puts kids at risk.

There is absolutely no way I would allow a man who just ‘decided’ to identify as a woman to be share sleeping or showering facilities with my daughter.

Gersemi, I for one am not saying that transgender people are more likely than anyone else to be sexual predators, but I don't believe they are any less likely. Why would that be?

Time and again I've seen transactivists wash their hands of a trans woman who's been convicted of some crime by saying that person was obviously not really trans. They can't have it both ways.

Either some genuine transgender people are criminals, just as every other group in society has criminal members.

Or they have to accept that gender self-ID paves the way for criminals to abuse the system.

Either way, there are grounds for concern about self-ID.

The issue is about single-sex spaces for females. Parents do not have a right to be told that a volunteer is transgender. Being transgender itself is not a risk and it makes no odds whatsoever to whether someone is a good volunteer and good with the kids.
The separate issue is single-sex facilities. The organisation should (I know they don't, which is a problem) have a duty to ensure that all sleeping arrangements and facilities are single-sex.

About 80% do not have genital surgery

That is my concern, I don’t honk many people know this and to me, if you have a penis, you should not be afforded the privileges that are afforded to women regarding safeguarding issues.

*think

I was a brownie, a guide and a ranger. The adult helpers never slept in the same room or tent as us. We also never showered with them.

Male teachers took us on school camps and trips and their penises were never an issue.

Whilst I am concerned about sexual predators self identifying to enter women’s prisons, I would hope that safeguarding and whistle blowing is robust enough on holidays with children to protect them from any adult who could take advantage.

DBS is a red herring as above - we don't question whether married women will put their maiden name down (for example - your married name won't automatically link with your maiden name on a DBS). It's a flaw with DBS, to rely on accurate self reporting

A flaw that is known of and could be addressed.

If you lie on a dbs form, it is fraud and I think a criminal offence but I think that’s not a deterrent to those who want to hide their criminal past.

I'm constantly shocked by threads on MN that make it so obvious that females are conditioned from birth to think that male wants are more important than anything women might want or feel.

If you are a man who wants to wear female clothes and say you are a woman - crack on. But why then insist on getting into female spaces? Do you absolutely have to volunteer with GGs? Does a boy who thinks he's a girl have to join GGs? Why not work with or join a mixed group? Why does it have to one of the few places where girls can be on their own with other girls?

Juells exactly!

It’s bloody depressing.

When parents say "My daughter would be uncomfortable sharing toilets or tent with a boy" the answer always is that she should be educated, or another space will be provided for her.

I support the Guides too. Nice to see a bit of balance when this is discussed on AIBU as opposed to the feminist boards.

A girl who believes she is a boy will be managed out of the unit as she does not identify as a girl.A boy who identified as a girl will be welcomed into the unit and treated as a girl - activities, sleeping accomodation, showers... Parents will not be told that their girls are sharing a space with a boy, and if the girls themselves object to sharing a space with a boy their bigotry will be gently explained to them. Boys in a previously all girls space changes things. It's not all about rape and sexual assaults (though obviously these are a concern) it's about how having a boy in the group changes things for the girls.

This is the bit that bothers me, too.

DD (12) has been in Rainbows, Brownies and Guides for 7 years and values it greatly because it is a female only space.

Guides in particular has taught her some really valuable female lessons, I especially remember the work they did around how girls shouldn’t be valued for what they look like, the prevalence photoshopping in the media etc.

If a female only space becomes littered with boys wearing dresses then how does that affect these type of discussions? How likely are adolescent girls to open up about these issues with boys in the room?

My DD is a guide. She has never slept alongside an adult (male or female). They always have separate rooms/tents.

So the tiny chance that her guide leader is a trans woman, and the even tinier chance that she is a sexual predator isn't something that alarms me, TBH.

Just reflecting on this a bit more. If anyone commits a criminal offence or is added to the disbarred list (is not allowed to work with vulnerable adults or children) or added to the sex offenders register, then any name changes must be flagged to this history IMO.

That can apply to any name change - gender has nothing to do with it.

No OP, YANBU.

This stuff isn’t easy. It goes against the grain of decades of being told to be “nice”. It also takes a huge amount of thought and effort to realise discomfort with this really isn’t akin to homophobia.

There are valid questions, objections and concerns here, and yelling “bigot” at people raising them is not helping.

Would parents of guides not be concerned about their dd’s sharing sleeping arrangements with boys who self id as girls?