To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

[BakedBeans47]

I am as GC as they come but in this case I think YABU. By all means the organisation should do due diligence on all its volunteers including a discussion around their motives as well as any other checks but I don’t see why everyone needs to know.

[sashh]

caroline161

Are you aware that the TRAs now consider people who identify as trans sexual or who have body dismorphia as not trans?

I was a brownie, a guide and a ranger. The adult helpers never slept in the same room or tent as us. We also never showered with them.

But this also applies to brownies, guides and rangers. I'm sure you didn't share tents with males at any time.

[tillytopknots]

That is my concern, I don’t honk many people know this and to me, if you have a penis, you should not be afforded the privileges that are afforded to women regarding safeguarding issues.

WTF are you on about? Women are not afforded privileges regarding safeguarding

Another one here glad to see the hate being challenged.

[BakedBeans47]

trans women should not be allowed to share single sex space with female children (i.e., changing rooms, showering facilities, sleeping in the same room).

I do agree but I understand that at residentials/camps leaders and children are all segregated anyway for sleeping/showering

[LizzieSiddal]

It isn’t just about adults trans women!

It’s about teenage boys self IDing as a girl and they will most definitely be sleeping/sharing showering facilities with your dds. And they will most definitely still have a functioning penis.

And you as a parent are not allowed to be informed!

[glenthebattleostrich]

Safeguarding is not bigotry. Biology is not bigotry.

Girls (and boys) need to be allowed sex segregated spaces. That's sex, not gender. Not just because of safeguarding but privacy and dignity.

It's like we are living in the novel 1984.

[BakedBeans47]

A boy who identified as a girl will be welcomed into the unit and treated as a girl - activities, sleeping accomodation, showers... Parents will not be told that their girls are sharing a space with a boy, and if the girls themselves object to sharing a space with a boy their bigotry will be gently explained to them.

This I think is wrong. Biological males should not share with females.

[PeakPants]

It’s about teenage boys self IDing as a girl and they will most definitely be sleeping/sharing showering facilities with your dds. And they will most definitely still have a functioning penis.

Yes, that is the actual issue. The OP is worded a bit badly because it suggests that a leader being trans is some sort of risk in itself. If read in passing, it could come across as a bit prejudiced. There are male leaders in the GG, so clearly there is no issue with a leader being trans per se. However, the real problem is that boys identifying as girls are allowed to shared facilities with girls. That needs to stop.

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

I assume that male leaders/helpers in the GG sleep separately from female leaders/helpers. What if a leader/helper is a trans woman? Given that the trans woman is being treated as identical to a biological woman, could the other leaders/helpers insist on sex segregated sleeping and showering facilities for themselves?

[lizzzyyliveson]

BakedBeans47 you went from accepting to anti-trans in 3 posts. Is this a record? Lol

[TwoOddSocks]

Your solution is to take your daughter out of guides or get off your arse and volunteer yourself. As someone who actually volunteers for things I'm sick of parental complaints from people who never ever lift a finger (and there are plenty of jobs to be done that can be done in the evening).

The leaders don't shower or sleep with the girls anyway whatever their gender. Get the hell over it. Lots of women volunteer with cubs and men volunteer with guides. Your daughter is much more likely to be abused by a member of her family (who hasn't passed DBS checks).

I'm sick of mumsnet and their anti-trans threads every day. Usually from middle class feminists who spend a lot of time moaning about the horrible prejudice they suffer while happily attacking members of the public who receive many many times more prejudice.

[LizzieSiddal]

FFS no one on this thread is “anti trans”

[ButchyRestingFace]

BakedBeans47 you went from accepting to anti-trans in 3 posts. Is this a record? Lol

BankedBeans said she was gender critical.

Since when have Trans Liberation Lobby allowed Gender Criticals into their ranks?

[sashh]

could the other leaders/helpers insist on sex segregated sleeping and showering facilities for themselves?

No.

If they try they will be forced to leave because they are deemed transphobic.

[TwoOddSocks]

As a leader when I go on camp I bring my own tent anyway. All the volunteers will know each other and be friends and work out our own sleeping arrangements without help from pearl clutching mumsnettters.

[RoboticSealpup]

I will never, ever let DD get involved with the guides or brownies for this reason.

[LizzieSiddal]

OddSocks how Bloody rude you are!

[TwoOddSocks]

sashh

oh do bog off. I always sleep on my own on camp because I don't sleep well with other people.

[LizzieSiddal]

OddSocks and bully for you for having your own tent. What about women who don’t, they many have no choice but to share with make bodied people. Do you care about their wishes?

[LizzieSiddal]

*male bodied

[UrsulaPandress]

You sound lovely socks

[CosmicCanary]

To all those that have no problem with a male bodied person identifying as a girl could you please answer my question?

So why have sex segregation at all?

Why do schools and scouts bother putting boys and girls in different sleeping/showering areas?

[LizzieSiddal]

I hoe they aren’t really a guider. Wouldn’t want my Dd dealing with the nastiness OddSocks is showing in this thread.

[sashh]

Your daughter is much more likely to be abused by a member of her family (who hasn't passed DBS checks).

But that doesn't mean we should not have safe guarding in girl guides, schools, children's holidays. We don't throw up our hands and say, "well it usually happens at home".

If a guide leader has male children they can go on camp but not share a tent with girls. That is policy. But the same boy only has to say, "I feel like a girl" and he can share a tent.

And it's not just about abuse, I don't feel comfortable undressing in front of a male. In fact if I go to the Dr/hospital a curtain is pulled around while I undress. This is about dignity and privacy as well as offering girls a safe place.

[TwoOddSocks]

LizzieSiddal

Trans people have the highest rate of suicide out of any demographic. They are the most likely to suffer prejudice in the work place or be attacked in public. Every day we have threads on MN complaining about trans people - here we have a thread complaining about trans people who have taken time out of their lives to help young girls. If you think my post is rude I'm sure you'll get over it.