To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

I'm with you OP. The guides is a female-only organisation. A man dressed as a woman is NOT female. A man who has had surgery to remove his genitals and is taking hormones is NOT a female. Biology says so. That's a fact.

Everyone should be treated with respect and kindness no matter what their own idiosyncrasies, but that doesn't mean that their rights and feelings trump everyone else's, especially vulnerable teenage girls.

And for those who are saying that those who object to self ID are calling all trans people perverts; well that's just wrong. There are lots of different reasons why people might present as trans and gender dysphoria is actually in the minority. Many are what used to be called transvestites, many are fetishists and there is a fair number of woman haters in there too.

To think that predatory men wouldn't take opportunities like this, where everyone is falling over themselves to be right on and look after their feelings, to get access to women and girls is naive.

No it doesn't. You aren't allowed to ask their previous name so it relies on them being forthcoming with it and saying 'please check this name too.' Which if they're a predatory man looking to gain access to young girls - they wouldn't do, would they?

But would the DBS system be able to pick it up?

If Martin Smith decide to become Jennifer Smith (or even Jack Smith) tomorrow, is there some way for the DBS system to "link" the two identities? Without him self-disclosing?

It sounds like there isn't. (fuck)

I took lizziesiddal to mean that you will spot a man self id-ing as a woman? Regardless of what people would like to think, it's always pretty obvious. As to that person's character, that won't be apparent just by looking. Which is why the safeguarding rules are there. This is about safeguarding children. The rights of trans people should not come before the rights of children. And it is a fact that sexual predators are drawn to organisations with weak safeguarding. It would be naive to think otherwise.

Er, no it's not. What an extremely tedious and tiresome exchange

Yes I agree.

I said that the DBS check should make sure that there is a link between all name changes - that’s my proposed solution. But that link and check needs to be done and known only by the government body which does the check - not the organisation who requested it.

I also believe that this link should not be revealed to anyone except those handling the check. It would be an offence under GDPR to reveal that information unnecessarily.

A dbs isn’t infallible and you can’t stop people lying but you can at least put some measures in place ie links between name changes. You are supposed to put previous names down on a dbs form.

There is no link just an extra form - that has to be requested by the applicant.

To repeat, nobody is saying that transgender people are any more likely than anyone else to be sex offenders

Come off it. That is exactly what this thread is about.

And yet there are male teachers in girls' schools.

But would the DBS system be able to pick it up?

No. It completely relies on them coming forward with the info.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

I wouldnt want a man sleeping amongst the girls. Regardless of how he identifies. Of course not all trans people are paedophiles. But what's to stop straight paedophiles from pretending to be trans so that they gain access to children.

To repeat, nobody is saying that transgender people are any more likely than anyone else to be sex offenders

Males who identify as women offend at the same rate as other males. So they are more likely to be sex offenders than females.

Not bigoted. Fact.

My complaint is that trans women have had a lifetime of not being a female guider or a female anything - now they can present as a woman/girl , I'm fine with that , entirely fine but why the urge to go places which cause worries for parents. Just don't join the guides , go to girls sports but change in the disabled toilet. It's the sleeping together after dark - I feel it's deliberately taking advantage of an awkward situation and putting their selfish wishes first.
Theyve been Male for years then suddenly MUST have access to everything. I don't go into mosques or men only clubs.

No. It completely relies on them coming forward with the info.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

Yup. More so now, with the expectation that men can access female spaces on accounts of their feelz.

I'm always suspicious of people who seem so desperate to want men to be allowed into women's and girls spaces.

If I knew someone IRL with that view (which I don't) I'd never allow my children to be alone with them.

Oh Christ, again? Really?

Yes, you are BU. He is unlikely to be a predator just because he is trans.

And yes lets be open here 50% of the transwomen people in prision are in for sexual crimes compared to 20% if the general male population and 2% of women in prision.

YANBU. There is a safeguarding issue.

The leaders do not sleep amongst the girls FFS.

Why should the feelings of a tiny proportion of men or boys trump the safeguarding of girls? Nobody pushed for GGs to decide on this course of action, so why did they decide on it without consulting anyone?

Worth point out too that old school transsexuals were very likely to have had surgery on the genital area. Only a small minority of trans women nowadays have that. They make take hormones and if they have surgery it tends to be feminisation of the face, reduction of the Adam's apple and breast implants. Not many go for orchidectomy and vaginoplasty, so although they may be dressing as women they are still very male anatomically. Also most continue to be sexually attracted to women, hence describing themselves as lesbians, whereas in the past most trans women were attracted to men.

As someone who's only recently started looking at this, it baffles me that transgender issues have been tacked onto LGB issues. They're not the same at all and in some ways are contradictory. LGB people are same-sex attracted. Now they're being told that it's transphobic not to be attracted to a person of the opposite sex if that person identifies as the same sex.

Yes, you are BU. He is unlikely to be a predator just because he is trans.

He's a hell of a lot more likely to be a sexual predator on account of being a biological male than a woman-born-woman would be.

The leaders do not sleep amongst the girls FFS

Leaders who’ve been subject to background dbs checks etc.

So let’s ensure that DBS checks can pick up all name changes and cross check to any previous criminal activity.

It’s not discriminatory.

He is unlikely to be a predator just because he is trans.

Misgendering is transphobic, FYI. People have been banned for less 😉

For me it's not about the leaders. It's about transitioning boys being allowed in.

DBS is a red herring as above - we don't question whether married women will put their maiden name down (for example - your married name won't automatically link with your maiden name on a DBS). It's a flaw with DBS, to rely on accurate self reporting.