To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

Sorry, one too many negatives there:

It would be naive to assume that all debates online don’t have a trolling, bad faith element.

Because I cannot see a solution that trans campaigners would be happy with. We aren’t allowed to ask for: dead names/ GRC/ previous history without accusations of transphobia.

When trans folk ask people not to use deadnames and to respect their choice to withhold sections of their past they are talking about these things in a social context. They are asking for the courtesy that most of us would extend to non-transgender people. No one is an open book to all people, all of the time.

In a professional context, like a job interview, background check or situation that requires the processing of identifying documents, trans folk are more forthcoming.

You’d think most men would extend to women the courtesy of being able to say the word woman. And leave them some privacy in the changing rooms. But it seems that’s just too much to ask.

nicola ?

Why is it transfolk and people in your post?

You dont have to answer, im just curious

(Surely it would be transpeople and people or transfolk and folk...if you use folk instead of people obviously)

If this is the case OP my DD won't be going.

Because transgenderwoman would be weird. Transgender, even abbreviated, is a adjective not a prefix.

nicola

I obviously haven't exolained myself

Why folk and not people?

So you said

Transfolk...which obviously is meant the same way as me saying transpeople

So why not

Folk...which would be the same thing as meaning people

I didnt say anything about transgenderwomen...which is bulky

Anyway...dont worry, like i said just nosy

Ah. I thought you referring to why I spaced after trans.

I was just using folk as a synonym for people. I didn’t mean anything by it.

AyeRobot we are talking about it. People on twitter are talking about it.
GG are letting down those girls too - they are having a very difficult time in their lives and to seperate them from friends and support networks at a time where a space to discuss what is happening to their bodies will be understood and listened to with empathy is terrible and such a betrayal really.
The insinuation that because the girls choose to identify as boys means that they should no longer be interested in GG activities is simply gender stereotyping, one of the things that GG purport to work against.
Mixed sex and mixed gender - they need to own it to support all their members. It's a crying shame to lose a single sex space for girls but that's already happened, so to be a proper safe supportive environment for young people they need to embrace the mixed sex environment fully.

The uk doesn’t have a population registry. Many other countries do and you get a number that is your ID for life, regardless of name changes. That means you can’t hide an identity if you’ve committed a crime with it.

The UK doesn’t have such a thing. It appears to be possible to ‘unlink’ identities.

Now: safeguarding. We have a national DBS system in place because of weaknesses identified after the Soham murders (Huntley had previous convictions but because the system wasn’t national, his past activities were not seen by those employing him.)

If people are allowed to erase a past identity and prevent people from seeing it, or have it stricken from the record under right to forget we create a loophole. In a society with a population registry that loophole would be closed because thevpastvidentity would be visible in the system evennif it’s not googleable. But the UK doesn’t have that, so again.... loophole

What’s to stop a predatory, non trans Male just changing their name, getting a new identity and failing to disclose? Add in a climate of fear over deadnaming and that loophole widens.

When people can’t ask the hard questions, that loophole becomes big enough to drive a bus through.

This isn’t about being mean to trans people. It’s aboit safety.

Lots of people here are saying they're perfectly fine with their DDs sharing accommodation with transgirls (boys) and having transwomen (men) Guide leaders.
That's great.
GirlGuiding should, all the same, have notified parents that self-id is now their policy. So that anyone who does object to that could make an informed decision about what to do.

Thank you nicola

I was honestly just being nosy...i didnt think you meant anything by it

Should have pm'ed really, that might have been better

Is there anyone on here that wouldn't let teen boys and girls sleep in the same room at home but will allow it on Guide trips? (because a boy has changed to trans girl) Genuine question, which I've asked about 6 times now. TIA for any replies.

Tillytop - I doubt you’ll get an answer. Because all these people Virtue signalling are only willing to put other people’s children at risk. They are happy to look woke as long as YOUR kids not theirs pay the price.

They think it’s acceptable collateral damage. Just like the hundreds of girls raped in school each year.

Tilytop, I wouldn’t allow either scenario. Which would lead to GG kicking me out, I assume. I will follow safeguarding along lines of biology not gender. I know that trans people are not inherently predatory in the way I know my DH or DS would not hurt any of my Brownies. However, if DH and DS were coming on a sleepover to help out (orDS because DH was working and I had no childcare) then I would inform parents, ensure they were sleeping separately, follow all the other safeguarding rules (DBS etc) and not expect my fellow leaders to share a room with them. Because safeguarding. Not because I suspect DH is a predator.

Why this doesn’t apply to biologically male leaders I have no idea. Oh yes, the patriarchy. Which as a single sex organisation we should be conscious of and alert to.

I'm trying to understand their logic Orlaith it's very difficult. Even one pregnancy or "incident" is one too many. If they are talking about other teens and not their own, then that's even more disgusting and disgenuine than I realised. The safeguarding risks are slapping us in the face, it's so obvious!

And where are Social Services in all this? Surely they're not going to allow it?

That should be "disingenuous" btw. So angry can't even spell!!

In safeguarding everyone needs to be treated the same - as a potential risk because when certain individuals are enabled to slip through the cracks, inevitably vulnerable people pay the price. No secrets, no hiding facts from parents.

Golden that's exactly right

How the hell have we reached this situation where hiding facts from parents are acceptable to GG, NSPCC and SS?

There is a very small and sinister group who seem to have the ears of people with control, and who know how to use the law and social media to push their agenda.

They need their heads examining.

If the transwomen considered themselves women enough to get rid of the penis there wouldn't be a problem.

No-one can be sure there would be no problem, even then. A pervert without a penis could still be a pervert.

I don’t understand why we can’t have safeguarding like the Scouts.
Won't the Scouts be accepting trans people as their chosen gender, too? Making their safeguarding less effective?