To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

Do guides not leave the church halls then...at all?

Seems a bit sad

You tell me pony. Meanwhile those of us who don't think one anecdote about what one Guide does whilst not on residentials will continue the grown up chat.

I’ve a child in Scouts and they stripped off to sleep overnight and again in the morning to get dressed. They were in single sex accommodation. The leaders were mixed sex and presumably sorted themselves out.

I assumed that Scouts and gg do residential activities fairly regularly so I would assume this issue will come up for all gg sooner or later (unless a dd has a blanket ban on overnight trips). Parents need to be able to make informed decisions regarding their dc when they are away overnight. Mixed sex sleeping arrangements might not bother some dc but will bother others and be completely unacceptable for some. Hiding that away is the thing that makes this so bad.

We're talking about Guides. My dd has never had to take clothes to change at Guides. If she did and was worried she'd be perfectly capable of taking herself off to a toilet cubicle.

Male staff do work in primary schools and deal with female accidents just the same as female staff deal with male accidents.

Do

P3onyPenny as an example, the guides in the area I live go on surfing and swimming excursions, with other groups aside from their own.
They have to find somewhere to change; they are grouped together with strangers from other Guide troops.
Part of my concern about this is that the safeguarding the Guides have in place is insufficient; that Guides & volunteers would not feel able to come forward and say for example 'Can I have somewhere separate to change from that Guide or that Leader, because they are men and I feel embarrassed/worried'.
This current saga makes me think that either that Guide would be told she is being discriminatory and a bigoted transphobe, or that they would not feel able to raise that concern in the first place for fear of being thought unkind and unsupportive. However if they did have to provide separate spaces for girls & trans girls and trans women to change, then it is accepting that there IS an impact on the way that GirlGuiding is run.
So why not come out and accept it?
My daughter uses local swimming facilities that have single-sex, communal showers and changing rooms. I would NOT feel happy about her sharing those spaces with boys and men, no matter how strongly those boys and men felt like women.
Would your DH use communal changing & sleeping spaces? Of course not. So why do you think it is OK for trans girls and trans women to use communal changing and sleeping spaces?

Do you understand that some Guides go on overnight trips and/or do activities that might involve single sex changing facilities though?

Ihaventgot

Beavers, cubs and scouts were never in the blooming scout hut! Sailing, crabbing, up at the beach in the woods

Came home filthy!!

Really this whole things is a complete bloody charade and I am personally sick to the back teeth of constantly having to defend why biological women need single sex spaces.

Male staff do work in primary schools and deal with female accidents just the same as female staff deal with male accidents.

(a) Not for girls over the age of 8 and (b) NEVER in secondary schools.

Safeguarding can't work properly if we can't talk openly about the fact that there will be people of different sexes at the activities. It just can't.
That's why Scouts can (hopefully) run safe mixed-sex activities - they can talk about it and put measures in place to make everyone feel comfortable.
If Guides won't accept that they are a mixed sex organisation, their safeguarding will ALWAYS be insufficient.

On the odd occasions such facilities are used they will be the same as hoards of schools use. They manage,guides can too.The vast maj of parents and girls won't be bothered in the slightest.

Single Sex spaces are covered under the ECHR and the equalities act.

Sex is not gender.

The main issue here is one of consent and safeguarding. By allowing people regular responsibility for children based on their self declarations of identity undermines the safeguarding procedures to the extent of making them pointless.

This is about protecting children from those who would exploit this loophole to harm them. It is not about trans people being predators. People who like to harm children will always be looking for gaps in the system. Why purposely create one?

Surely these days male teachers will never be in a 1-2-1 situation with a girl! Never begind a closed door too.

Girls over 8 don't need help changing.

No member of staff would be 121. Male or female.

I can assure you that male members of staff are never allowed into the girls’ changing rooms at secondary school. Neither are they allowed into the girls’ toilets. I have been asked numerous times on break duty to check the girls’ toilets for straglers/ loiterers by male staff members.

Do ANY of the people saying ‘this is fine’ on this thread believe that humans can change sex?

Stand up and be counted if you do. Not gender, sex. can humans change sex?

No one believes this, because humans cannot change sex.

Leave the entire trans concept out of it for a moment. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that all transpeople are saints. Let’s jist talk about men. Regular men.

The guides have effectively become a mixed sex organisation. Scouts are mixed sex and have very clear safeguarding rules. Guides have none of that. In fact the opposite- they’re working against safeguarding

So - men - just men, are now allowed into positions with access to girls with no safeguarding. if you think male predators won’t use that, you’re very naive.

And again, in fifty foot high neon letters for those whose only reply is to yell transphobic,

MEN WILL USE THIS TO ACCESS AND ABUSE CHILDREN.

No, you can be 121 but the door must remain open at all times and it is good practice to let a colleague know that you are in with the student and, preferably, be in line of sight of someone else’s classroom.

Peony what on Earth are you talking about? All youth organisations, schools put girls and boys in different accommodation. Why do you think they do that. Why do you think Guides doesn't!

The guides have effectively become a mixed sex organisation. Scouts are mixed sex and have very clear safeguarding rules. Guides have none of that. In fact the opposite- they’re working against safeguarding

I really don't understand why some posters on this thread have a problem with statements such as the one above

Because people are terrified of being called bigoted rufus. but the word loses its power when it’s thrown about so much. TRA activists use it about any action short of absolute, full validation.

I dont care one little bit if I’m called a bigot for pointing out that:

Humans can’t change sex
Men as a class are a danger to females as a class
That’s why we have sex segregated spaces in areas where where women and girls are potentially vulnerable
Making guides mixed sex without proper safeguarding is unwise.

Those are facts. Biology isn’t bigoted.

Because Rufus they don’t actually understand what safeguarding entails and how vulnerable children and young people are to abuse.

I can only imagine these people haven’t had to spend any time with sexual/emotionally/physically abused young people and they aren’t aware of the lengths twisted people go to to access children.

No member of staff would be 121. Male or female.

Now, you're just going blah blah without the slightest evidence to back yourself up, aren't you?

Of course there are times when a member of staff is 1-1 with a child in a school!

Because Rufus they don’t actually understand what safeguarding entails and how vulnerable children and young people are to abuse.

I can only imagine these people haven’t had to spend any time with sexual/emotionally/physically abused young people and they aren’t aware of the lengths twisted people go to to access children.

Those arguing that there's no problem, no safeguarding issues, etc - you need to watch this video. If you choose not to, I can only infer that you don't actually care about children and young people's safety.