Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

@RubiksQueen it's a very valid sadness and none of us should ever be made to feel LESS THAN, no matter how we found ourselves here.

@Celestia26 a lovely post thank you.
You said it perfectly:

"I think whether you have children or not, it matters more about the compassion and kindness you bring to those around you, which is the legacy you leave.
*
You don't have to be a parent to make an impact on peoples lives and leave lasting and beautiful memories behind.*"

@leigh thank you for sharing your story, I’m so sorry

Botanica Thank you. This thread has completely made me reassess the way I treat those without children, so I'm glad MMHQ has left it up.

I'm certainly not the type to 'needle' someone who doesn't have children just to make myself feel more superior. Rather, realising there are subtle changes you can make in the language you use and the things you say that could stop someone from hurting needlessly.

This thread had certainly educated me. Thank you.

Has educated me. Sorry, fat fingers today!

RubiksQueen the hurt you feel is no less valid than anyone else's.

All of our struggles may not be identical but they are struggles none the less and we are all here to listen and give a hand if needed

Leigh - can't even imagine what you've been through. Words are not enough, but I am so truly sorry at the awful things that have happened to you. My heart goes out to you.

I also told my DH to leave me and find someone who could give him children. His response - "I married you, not your ability to have children". That made me cry too.

I do have a feeling that whatever I achieve in life, as a writer, or in other fields will always have the ryder in people's minds 'ah, but she never had children'.

I also avoid school reunions because I cannot bear the thought of meeting up with all those girls I grew up with and being one of the ones who didn't have children.

Thanks all. it's just crap really.

Clothrabbit I feel like that too.

I also quite often have the 'whats the point' feelings. Like whats the point of my life if it is just waking up, going to work, coming home and repeat.

I know to an extent it's all in your mindset and that 'life is what you make it' but it's so hard.

Leigh I wish I could say more than 'I'm sorry' because it seems so trite in the face of unimaginable loss. But I am truly sorry that you, and all the other women sharing their childless not by choice stories here, have been robbed of the future you so desperately wanted to have.

I am childfree by choice (I have stepchildren but they were young adults when I met their dad, so I've never really played any form of parenting role). Just a couple of weeks ago, a colleague asked me "don't you have any kids?" and when I said no, but I have stepchildren, she went on to ask - more of a demand, actually - "so did you never want them?" I stared at her long enough for her to start to look uncomfortable and said quietly "luckily I can say no, I never did, because it's true, but the next childfree woman you ask might have a very different answer, so maybe think about what might lie behind someone's childlessness, eh?" and walked away.

Incidentally, I think this: It is well known that AIBU is a bit harsher than some of the other boards. If you're posting about something that requires a bit more sensitivity then other places may offer more support, even if it's not Mumsnet. If you post on AIBU, you generally experience a harsher viewpoint. It might seem unfair but that's just how this board is. I usually go elsewhere with sensitive subjects is a crock of shite. It shouldn't matter which board someone has posted on, if the subject is sensitive then behave with sensitivity! That's basic human decency, surely? Or do some posters really think "wow, there are a lot of heartfelt stories being shared here, gosh, some of these people have really been through it. If only this were on another board, so I could express some empathy for their situations. Sadly they've posted in AIBU so I can only post confrontationally / aggressively / sarcastically / like a goady fucker"?

BanananananaDaiquiri

That really wasn't what I meant, and you've taken it the wrong way. Of course people are going to be sympathetic and kind on AIBU, if they're that sort of person anyway.

I was just writing my about my experience of AIBU, maybe you have had a different experience and that's fine.

I feel the same @Clothrabbit, that's why I posted at the beginning of the thread about Sigourney Weaver. She devalued Katharine Hepburn's achievements by saying she felt sorry for her because she never had children.

I agree that legacy can be wider than children, but those of us without have to work much harder to have one.

@RubiksQueen I hear you, your pain is no less because you have not had the chance to try for a child.

Oh and I also avoid school reunions.

Also BanananananaDaiquiri many people advise moving posts to other boards if it's about a particular area.....domestic abuse, infertility, transgender issues etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that on different boards you get different and sometimes more understanding responses.

Celestia26 I see your point. AIBU can be brutal sometimes.

I think now we've got to the point of being able to have a nice discussion on this thread, it's a good thing that it wasn't on the infertility board or other similar place as a few people have said it has helped them to reassess the way they converse with people without children. People who may not have seen the thread on another part of MN.

Peanutss I agree, I think being on AIBU it has the potential of reaching more people, so more people may benefit from reading the experiences on here. The flipside is you're probably more likely to get a few negative responses.

Also, it's not just about involuntary childlessness due to infertility, but also due to circumstance. Both situations are very painful, and leave the person or couple concerned with a deep sadness that never fully goes.

It might be worth MNHQ considering a permanent board for childless people regardless of the reason. But I wonder if that would be feeling like you're being segregated?

After I have been on a big night out, or booked a trip away, my friends with children tell me how jealous they are and how they want to know all about it so they can "live vicariously through me"... I feel like telling them to get a divorce, give their kids up for adoption and then they can have my life if they want it to much. See how much they want it then. I am not childless through choice and would give up any and every night out or trip away to have a child.

Celestia thank you for reading and acknowledging the posts on this thread, I'm sure any of your friends without children will be grateful for your consideration in the language you use

You've hit the nail on the head - I feel how I do because of the social narrative, and because of how so many parents speak to women without children.

I know I'm not alone, I've received so so many responses to my questionnaire saying the same. It's a silent pain - PP have said that they've made comments (like 'have you considered adoption?') and their friends haven't minded: but lots of posters here (including one who HAS adopted) said that we would never have said anything at the time, so just because we're not outwardly making a fuss doesn't mean we're not hitting deeply inside

I appreciate that it may be suggested other topics would be best suited to specific boards, but it's hard to see where a threads like this would live. It's not just for those who've experienced infertility - and in any case, if you've moved on from TTC then it's unlikely you'll be reading those boards anyway. Someone who's childless by circumstance isn't going to be on the infertility boards.

Chat may have been an alternative, but there's valuable stuff on this thread that might be useful to other posters who search around this subject. And in my experience, there tend to be similar comments towards childless women on threads in Chat as well as in AIBU, so I'm not optimistic things might not have taken a similar turn there either

*hurting deeply inside. My turn for fat fingers!

@RubiksQueen it's not grief top trumps - your pain and grief at not being able to have had the children you so desperately wanted and hoped for is no less valid than the grief of infertility or pregnancy loss. The end result is the same - involuntary childlessness. And it's really really shit.

We all stand together

I think a lot of the time people make these comments to child free women just to make conversation and in reality they don't give a shiney about if the women ever has kids or not. It's a bit like talking about weather, it's just empty chit chat.

I know headinhands. That's why I'm hoping this thread might make some of the many people who genuinely don't mean to hurt childless women, but do so without realising, just re-think how they speak to or in front of those without children.

Also, if you live on a new estate where the majority of residents are parents with young children, please don't assume the childless woman across the road has no interest in kids and would prefer to be left out of things. Some of us would absolutely love to be brought more into neighbourhood life and activities, but without children of our own we don't have the same natural pathway. If you can think of occasional gestures that would give such people the option of joining in something please don't be afraid to do so. Many individuals or couples would really appreciate it.